Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Zee Abrahamic trinity. An unholy union maybe?
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- Thread starter Starlight
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Why not? Bang goes your Friday. your Friday night, your Saturday and your Sunday ─ you'll never see a golf course again.
SeekerOnThePath
On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam
Many of the People of the Book are eager to turn you into unbelievers after your faith, out of their inner envy, [and] after the truth had become manifest to them. Yet excuse [them] and forbear until God issues His edict. Indeed God has power over all things.
And maintain the prayer and gives charity. Any good that you send ahead for your souls, you shall find it with God. Indeed God sees best what you do.
And they say, ‘No one shall enter paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian.’ Those are their [false] hopes! Say, ‘Produce your evidence, should you be truthful.’
Certainly whoever submits his will to God and is virtuous, he shall have his reward near his Lord, and they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.
The Jews say, ‘The Christians stand on nothing,’ and the Christians say, ‘The Jews stand on nothing,’ though they follow the [same] Book. So said those who had no knowledge, [words] similar to what they say. God will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that about which they used to differ.
- Qur'an, Surah 2:109-113
In terms of contemplating potential positions within a framework which conceives of the three positions and tries to reconcile them, I recommend checking out the Traditionalist school, also known as Perrenialism or Sophia Perennis. https://ia802509.us.archive.org/18/items/pdfy-lBasIMfuA724PVLO/Frithjof Schuon - The Transcendent Unity of Religions.pdf
Also, this is a fantastic book: https://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Islam-Samuel-Zinner/dp/1908092017
SeekerOnThePath
On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam
Yes it's definitively a curious situation from a comparative standpoint. While the three religions have had their tensions towards each other, it's also got the other side of being kinda fun almost.
It is hilarious in other regards too such as when a Christian attacks a Muslim for not believing that Jesus was the incarnation of their Trinitarian deity, when they try to pretend that Jews don't exists in such polemics.
The Trinity will never be the God of Abraham, The Trinity will never be the God of Israel, The Trinity will never be the God of the universe, only of the sophistry of pseudo-philosophers.
As for Judeo-Islamic tensions around Jesus himself though, just not something that will ever really be reconciled on any doctrinal level. Jewish-protochristianity died when the followers of James continued to be persecuted and beaten in proselytizing by the followers of Peter/Paul.
On most levels, I do feel Islam is way closer to Judaism, though the Qur'an tells me that Christians are the closest in terms of bonding, so I have no idea.
In most areas of doctrine and practice, Christianity is an alien entity to Islam unlike Judaism.
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SeekerOnThePath
On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam
I like to jump in all three seats from time to time, albeit both the other two Abrahamic religions don't strike me as "truth" epistemological, though I agree with the metaphysical and basic doctrinal views of Judaism and the more mystical-leaning truths of Christianity with it's greater emphasis on charity and the poor etc.
Islam reflect both of those realities but within a scripture that is not 3rd person narratives of scribes.
Still taking the Bible through the mystic lens that certain schools of mysticism in Judaism and Christianity have, is sometimes quite interesting.
All three religions are entirely interesting in their own right.
Islam reflect both of those realities but within a scripture that is not 3rd person narratives of scribes.
Still taking the Bible through the mystic lens that certain schools of mysticism in Judaism and Christianity have, is sometimes quite interesting.
- I like the idea of the Torah being a spiral from the first word Bereshiit to the death of Moses, being a infinitely repeating cycle (as seen in Torah portion cycles which is annual in synagogues). Albeit in many ways both Leviticus and Deuteronomy seem the most overall important books in those five books.
- Whereas with Christianity it's like these kind of Greek (Platonic and Aristotelian) bits stuffed into a post-Judaic framework, which is largely commentary upon the Torah itself (just like the Nevi'im and Midrash are) but completely reinterpreted in later Christianity (Catholicism and Protestantism - where they decide to turn Jesus into a deity, lol). The Gospel in the NT context being the story of Jesus' life (even though those books call "the Gospel" a doctrine he taught, and not his life and not biographical literature about him).
- Especially in the book of John though is there a lot of 1st century Apocalyptic Jewish mysticism flirted with in many places, as well as the Occult "Book of Revelations" (Apocalypse of St John).
- Whereas for the Qur'an, it's this non-linear book without beginning or end which is manifest in speech (as it is literally called "Recitation") and in daily practice as found from the time of Muhammad to the present day, a book in which itself is the center of the plot of the life of Prophet Muhammad (Hadith/Seerah/Sunnah) but which is not about Muhammad (Muhammad is the addressee; aka "O prophet, so and so"), but rather Muhammad being the reception which it is addressed, as well as it's initial audience and humanity as a whole. This non-linear book where God is the sole speaker the whole way through, wherein each Surah is a holistic whole both in regards to itself and in regards to the entire Qur'an itself, wherein it's central doctrines are contained on every page. Both self-aware of itself as revelation/scripture and in terms to all manner of inter-traditional discourse, both refuting and affirming, and so forth.
All three religions are entirely interesting in their own right.
Let’s take the human body. We begin as a zygote then the embryo then foetus goes through shape and size increments but it is still the same individual. In the matrix of the womb it develops the organs it will need to function in this world. Then it is born and although now it has eyes, ears and other functions it is still the same individual.
The placenta is discarded as it serves no other purpose for the newborn, as we develop through the lifespan to a child, adolescent and adult it goes through many physical changes and acquires new functions but by discarding the placenta, umbilical cord we are discarding the life of the womb to enter the world. Yet some, by definition want us to return to the womb instead of advancing and progressing.
The religion of God, likewise has gone through its own lifespan development, gradually growing to full maturity but just as we say that the zygote, foetus, placenta were all part of the same individual, so too we maintain that Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam and recently Bahá’í Faith are all as one individual with different development stages and new functions appearing with new development.
But if we look at the parts of the body separately we will only see each part but collectively they belong to only one body.
So a Bahá’í believes in the oneness of religion.
Baha’u’llah explains it perfectly.
“This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future”
The placenta is discarded as it serves no other purpose for the newborn, as we develop through the lifespan to a child, adolescent and adult it goes through many physical changes and acquires new functions but by discarding the placenta, umbilical cord we are discarding the life of the womb to enter the world. Yet some, by definition want us to return to the womb instead of advancing and progressing.
The religion of God, likewise has gone through its own lifespan development, gradually growing to full maturity but just as we say that the zygote, foetus, placenta were all part of the same individual, so too we maintain that Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam and recently Bahá’í Faith are all as one individual with different development stages and new functions appearing with new development.
But if we look at the parts of the body separately we will only see each part but collectively they belong to only one body.
So a Bahá’í believes in the oneness of religion.
Baha’u’llah explains it perfectly.
“This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future”
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
This controversial cartoonist tries to pull it off: Dave Sim - Wikipedia
rosends
Well-Known Member
To my understanding, the question is "can someone be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time?" If one is born to a Jewish mother, he is a Jew regardless of belief. Can you then be a "Jew" in parentage and a Christian OR a Muslim by belief? Sure. But can you be both Christian and Muslim or do the beliefs include opposed ideas or irreconcilable differences?
they are real, not fake, as I see it.
that's a myth I think. At least you don't have anything to back that up.
rosends
Well-Known Member
there are 3 kinds of "messianic Jews":
1. Actual Jews who follow Jewish law and who pray for a future messiah. We don't call them "messianic" but that belief is an integral part of belief and practice
2. Born Jews who have embraced the idea of Jesus and try to reconcile the two belief systems. Judaism says that the theologies cannot be reconciled so these people, while still "Jews" under Jewish law are effectively Christians and are excluded from the Jewish community.
3. Born Christians who try to claim the title of "Jew" to go along with their particular brand of Christian belief. They are Christians and not Jews at all.
In terms of being "Jews", number 3 is fake. Number 2 is sort of real (actually Jews by birth) and sort of fake (espousing an impossible theology under Jewish law).
Goddess Kit
Active Member
Anything is possible with an imagination, yet is it realistic?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Depends on the definition of each of these things I suppose. By Jew, if its the race, then he could be Christian or Muslim. By Christian if its "little Christ" or follower of Christ, he could be Muslim.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
A correction first: "Jew" is a nationality, "Judaism" is a religion, thus not all Jews are into Judaism.
As far as the intent of the question is concerned, it is possible to be into Judaism, Christianity, and Islam if one looks at them as being imperfect vehicles attempting to try and understand God. Gandhi took this approach, thus holding services that included prayers and reading from them and also from Hinduism.
Scott C.
Just one guy
I don't think it's possible to believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and to believe he is not the Son of God. So, no.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Moses and Jesus gave teachings which culminated/perfected/completed into the teachings that are in the Quran. Right, please?
In this sense a true follower of Moses and Jesus, I understand, gets united in the name/essence of a Muslim. Right, please?
So, in this sense, it is reasonably possible. Right, please?
Regards
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
If a person believe the Quran is the most divine inspired book, that the Quran is more correct and divine inspired than the Tanakh and the New testament then that is not what I mean is to be jew, christian and muslim at the same time.
I think if a person try to be both jew, christian and muslim at the same time the person has to believe Tanakh, New testament and the Quran is equally as much from God.
Therefore I don't believe a Baha'i is a jew, christian and muslim at the same time either because Baha'i believe Baha'u'llah's writings is God's latest massage and is more important and right correct belief than the others scriptures from God. But this is only what I think on this matter
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"I don't believe a Baha'i is a jew, christian and muslim at the same time"If a person believe the Quran is the most divine inspired book, that the Quran is more correct and divine inspired than the Tanakh and the New testament then that is not what I mean is to be jew, christian and muslim at the same time.
I think if a person try to be both jew, christian and muslim at the same time the person has to believe Tanakh, New testament and the Quran is equally as much from God.
Therefore I don't believe a Baha'i is a jew, christian and muslim at the same time either because Baha'i believe Baha'u'llah's writings is God's latest massage and is more important and right correct belief than the others scriptures from God. But this is only what I think on this matter
I agree with one that I have colored in Magenta.
Regards
I am wondering why you would ever need to identify yourself that way? Would it be to avoid those awkward conversations?
All have such diverse beliefs and practices that there would be no way to reconcile them. To claim to be all would mean being true to none. Is that what God wants?
If there is one true God...then there is one true religion.....but "few" will find it, according to Jesus. (Matthew 7:13-14)
Do you know why?
[Possible to be a] "jew, christian and muslim?"
They share the some of the same holy sites in Israel, so conflict. Their beliefs are different.
Some bred, and their kids are both, and lead lives on both paths, or choose one. I suppose some would have to make terrorist attacks on themselves.
They share the some of the same holy sites in Israel, so conflict. Their beliefs are different.
Some bred, and their kids are both, and lead lives on both paths, or choose one. I suppose some would have to make terrorist attacks on themselves.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
I am wondering why you would ever need to identify yourself that way? Would it be to avoid those awkward conversations?
All have such diverse beliefs and practices that there would be no way to reconcile them. To claim to be all would mean being true to none. Is that what God wants?
If there is one true God...then there is one true religion.....but "few" will find it, according to Jesus. (Matthew 7:13-14)
Do you know why?
I do not identify myself that way. I'm just a believer in God, not a specific religion. I believe in God without a specific religion.
What do you mean with "do you know why"?
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