Israeli using Palestinian Kids as Human Shields

[Assad91]

FearGod,

I have to say that one of the videos you posted, which sings a song praising the Qassam men, is truly despicable. The idea that violence against Israel, and Israeli civilians in particular, will solve anything is not only unethical, it's also incredibly stupid and self-destructive.

I am sorry, but one can't blame Palestinians for such. The Israelis are indiscriminate in their murdering of children and women. Why should Palestinians?

Why does the world claim Palestinians terrorist and barbaric, while Israelis kill more?

 

[FearGod]

FearGod,

I have to say that one of the videos you posted, which sings a song praising the Qassam men, is truly despicable. The idea that violence against Israel, and Israeli civilians in particular, will solve anything is not only unethical, it's also incredibly stupid and self-destructive.

Do you mean that the palestinians have no right to have their force of defence.
Do you mean that Palestinians should be unarmed and have to be killed with peace.
Do you mean its OK for Israel to have the most advanced killing machines in the world.

Sorry i don't agree with you.

i guess you know that every one have the right to protect his homeland,but then you may like and agree that Israel should only have the power to kill.

[youtube]TRZHqyGiDW4[/youtube]
Ecxiting view IDF -

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Personally, I believe that protecting innocent life is more important than perpetuating an endless cycle of indiscriminate revenge. You can't possibly believe that the Qassam rockets will have any effect other than increasing the misery of everyone, on both sides, especially innocent people.

*edit: By the way Mahmoud Abbas and many Palestinians agree the rocket attacks are not only wrong, but also self-destructive.

 

[Assad91]

For having such advance weaponry, its even worse that Israelis kill so many innocents. They bully Palestinians and imprison them, shoot them, steal from them, etc.

No sympathy from me if one or two innocents get killed, since the devils will in turn kill hundreds. As example of the last attack.

 

[England my lionheart]

I am sorry, but one can't blame Palestinians for such. The Israelis are indiscriminate in their murdering of children and women. Why should Palestinians?

Why does the world claim Palestinians terrorist and barbaric, while Israelis kill more?

Maybe the Plane hijackings,suicide attacks,bombs Rockets and kneecappings have something to do with it.

 

[jazzymom]

For having such advance weaponry, its even worse that Israelis kill so many innocents. They bully Palestinians and imprison them, shoot them, steal from them, etc.

No sympathy from me if one or two innocents get killed, since the devils will in turn kill hundreds. As example of the last attack.

Rockets shot from Gaza targeting civilian areas

Iron dome has allowed 1000s of hamas missiles to be destroyed before they find their targets which are civilian populations.

Indiscriminate killing and the targeting of large civilian areas by these rockets.

Restaurants filled with civilians bombed by palestinian suicide bombers.

Busses filled with civilians targeted by suicide bombers.

Israeli athletes innocent civilians killed by terrorists.

Sorry but when civilians are targeted Israel has a right to protect her citizens.

If the Palestinians had worked on building their state when it was first voted on at the same time that Israel started building their state there would be 2 states side by side.

But you know that did not happen.

When a country lives under a constant threat of war, terror which has been the constant for 64 years then the aggressor cannot claim to be the victims.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

In game theory there is a game called the Prisoner's Dilemma. There are many strategies; ignoring details, the second most successful strategy is Eye-for-an-Eye, that is, you are nice if your opponent is nice, and you take revenge if your opponent betrays you.

The problem with this strategy is that two opponents can get locked into an endless cycle of revenge. This is the worst possible outcome of the game. It's just like the saying attributed to Gandhi: "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." That's a very curious phenomenon: the second-best strategy, which leads to better outcomes almost all the time, sometimes leads to an outcome that is worse than all the other strategies. It would be better to make decisions at random, or always be nice, than to get trapped in this worst possible outcome.

So what is the best strategy? The best strategy is a slight modification of Eye-for-an-Eye. It's called Eye-for-an-Eye plus Forgiveness. In this strategy, if you become locked in a cycle of revenge, you occasionally stop taking revenge. This makes it possible to break the cycle. The cost is you miss a few chances to take revenge: your opponent hit you a few times, but you didn't hit back. But this cost is far outweighed by the benefit, which is that you can avoid what is by far the worst possible outcome.

Both sides MUST be willing to suspend retaliation. It is in the interest of both sides to do this. And when one side suspends retaliation we MUST get the other side to reciprocate or yet another chance for peace is missed. Even if you favor Israel, or Palestine, you must agree with this, because it is in their own interest. And that is not even to mention the ethical reasons for opposing violence.

 

[Sahar]

I am afraid that it's not really about retaliation. If you looked at the big picture, I don't think it's about that from the side of Hamas or any other resistance movement or from the side of the Zionists, I believe. It's more than that.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Well that is true, Sahar, Hamas officially said the rocket attacks were intended to cause a "mass migration" of Israeli civilians (to where?) Targeting civilians is not only a violation of human rights, it is also completely delusional to think it will actually cause such a mass migration. It will only result in enhancing the suffering of people on both sides, and ironically, it will especially enhance the suffering of Palestinians. And polls show a majority of Palestinians today agree with this view. If the priority is some imagined, God-given right to own the Holy Land rather than the actual well-being and peaceful co-existence of human beings, then there will be no end to the violence.

But Hamas is the fanatical party of God, after all, so I am not surprised that their thinking is delusional (please forgive me as I mean no offense, but this is my honest opinion). I do feel Hamas displayed a moment of sanity and reasonableness for a few months in 2008, but tragically, Israel did not seize on the opportunity.

 

[F0uad]

But Hamas is the fanatical party of God, after all, so I am not surprised that their thinking is delusional (please forgive me as I mean no offense, but this is my honest opinion). I do feel Hamas displayed a moment of sanity and reasonableness for a few months in 2008, but tragically, Israel did not seize on the opportunity.

Because Israel has them labeled as a terrorist organisation instead of a political elected party.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Because Israel has them labeled as a terrorist organisation instead of a political elected party.

True, but in order to walk forward, both feet have to work. Israel has to stop labeling Hamas as a terrorist organization instead of a political party, AND Hamas has to stop engaging in terrorism. We were halfway there in 2008. Hamas should have continued to crack down on terrorism instead of resuming the rocket attacks, which were both a violation of human rights and self-destructive.

Is this not reasonable?

 

[Shermana]

True, but in order to walk forward, both feet have to work. Israel has to stop labeling Hamas as a terrorist organization instead of a political party, AND Hamas has to stop engaging in terrorism. We were halfway there in 2008. Hamas should have continued to crack down on terrorism instead of resuming the rocket attacks, which were both a violation of human rights and self-destructive.

Is this not reasonable?

What's the plan on getting Hamas to stop engaging in terrorism so that Israel no longer is correct in identifying it as a terrorist organization?

 

[F0uad]

What's the plan on getting Hamas to stop engaging in terrorism so that Israel no longer is correct in identifying it as a terrorist organization?

Stop sending rockets as they did, but Israel is ignorant it wants to expand.
Even if Hamas lays downs its weapons and the whole of Palestinian becomes peaceful Israel wont, they will still build illegal settlements and then ask for a peace-treaty. The Palestinians will disagree because of the illegal-settlements then Israel can point fingers and say look they don't want peace.

 

[Shermana]

Stop sending rockets as they did, but Israel is ignorant it wants to expands..

Let me be more clear, what's the plan to get Hamas to stop sending rockets.

Talk about expansion, let's talk about how Israel gave Gaza up so that Hamas could be voted in to fire rockets at them....what a nice series of Thank you presents they gave them. Especially considering how prosperous Gaza was under Israeli rule.

Even if Hamas lays downs its weapons and the whole of Palestinian becomes peaceful Israel wont, they will still build illegal settlements and then ask for a peace-treaty. The Palestinians will disagree because of the illegal-settlements then Israel can point fingers and say look they don't want peace.

So are you saying that Israel has to evacuate all the settlements first as a precondition for Hamas to stop sending rockets and the PA to stop sniper-shooting Israeli civilians and stoning passing cars?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Let me be more clear, what's the plan to get Hamas to stop sending rockets.

The proposal of those of us on the Left is to end the blockade of Gaza (which is morally questionable anyway). This plan worked in 2008 (see my graph) based on a promise to end the blockade; it did not work ultimately because Israel failed to follow through on actually ending the blockade. In fact, in addition to being the most morally sound plan, as far as I know this is the only plan that has been demonstrated by the actual data to get Hamas to stop sending rockets.

 

[Flankerl]

Just so we get this out of the way: Egypt has a border with gaza through which gaza could be fully supplied.

Okay? Okay.

 

[jazzymom]

Because Israel has them labeled as a terrorist organisation instead of a political elected party.

Hamas is a terror organization.... Yes elected but a terror organization.

Israel is not the only country to label them as such.

 

[TommyDar]

What a bunch of rubbish.

It's the Palestinians that use human shields, not the Israelis:

Hamas Proud To Use Human Shields In Gaza [Video]

Palestinians use human shield to halt Israeli air strike on militants' homes | World news | The Guardian

IDF documents Palestinian using human shield - Israel News, Ynetnews

The footage shows the terrorists running toward a group of farmers. Then, one of them grabbed a woman and carried her until taking cover behind a building.

Eye-witnesses: Hamas used human shields in Gaza war - PMW Bulletins

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Just so we get this out of the way: Egypt has a border with gaza through which gaza could be fully supplied.

Okay? Okay.

Correct, both Egypt and Israel are responsible for agreeing that Gaza can only be supplied through Israel. I suspect Egypt did this to avoid conflict with Israel, and would have allowed food, etc. to pass through its border if Israel had changed its mind.

 

[F0uad]

What a bunch of rubbish.

It's the Palestinians that use human shields, not the Israelis:

Hamas Proud To Use Human Shields In Gaza [Video]

Palestinians use human shield to halt Israeli air strike on militants' homes | World news | The Guardian

IDF documents Palestinian using human shield - Israel News, Ynetnews


Eye-witnesses: Hamas used human shields in Gaza war - PMW Bulletins

You totally missed the point and i advice you to re-read it.