Islamic Jihad

[ManSinha]

As a trained medical professional, you should be aware that it is more likely that the person is simply interpreting subjective information in line with their deeply held beliefs and emotional preferences, which is a standard feature of our cognitive hardware.

Seeing as our brain evolved to work in exactly this manner, it is not best described as a delusion, and lying assumes they don't believe it themselves.

People easily believe that which is advantageous to them, it's just the way we work.

Interpreting it for oneself is one thing - trotting out that interpretation as established fact and expecting others to believe it sans questioning is naivete at best. Remember I said that "there is a good chance that..." -

Actually "religion" fits the parameters of delusion per the DSM for psychiatric disorders - it is given a pass else the majority of the world's people would be considered delusional

 

[ManSinha]

We see people like Joseph Smith of the Mormons and Guru Nanak as reformers but not independent Manifestations of God. About Lord Ram and Hanuman they are not included either but this is just our belief, others are free to believe as they wish.

Again and again - you demonstrate that the founders of your faith did not quite have the grasp of reality of a truly enlightened being - and yet you profess to continue believing and advocating -

 

[England my lionheart]

Some points I’d like to address in your post.

Muhammad was not involved in violent wars. The Meccans based their economy on tributes to some 360 gods. When Muhammad proclaimed one God like Jesus and Abraham before Him the Meccans first tried to bribe Him by offering Him wealth and position to withdraw His stance. He refused. Then oppression and cruel persecution began against both Muhammad and His followers including murders. This went on for 13 years without retaliation. Eventually Muhammad and His followers fled to Abyssinia where a Christian king gave them Asylum. This infuriated the Meccans even more and their one aim and goal became genocide of the complete Muslim community.

Then they fled to Medina where the tribes had disputes they could not resolve and asked Muhammad to intervene. When He was able to unite them then they accepted Islam after hearing its message.

At that point Muhammad received this verse 2:190 from God.

2:190 And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:

J M Rodwell

So from that point onwards Muslims were permitted to defend themselves but forbidden to attack unless attacked first. They were given the right to defend freedom of religion. And it was a case of being forced to fight or be destroyed. Muslims did not want to fight and this is recorded in the Quran too.

Innocent men women and children and those who did not attack or harm the Muslims were befriended and left alone.

2:62

Verily, they who believe (Muslims), and they who follow the Jewish religion, and the Christians, and the Sabeites whoever of these believeth in God and the last day, and doeth that which is right, shall have their reward with their Lord: fear shall not come upon them, neither shall they be grieved.

So the only people that Muslims were permitted to fight if attacked first were those who harmed them or broke their treaties and secretly worked with the Meccans.

Muhammad Himself never killed anyone in His entire lifetime.

After Muhammad passed away and left no will the Caliphs seized power and after a while desired to conquer for wealth and land but as the Quran forbade offensive warfare they fabricated Hadiths stating that Muhammad often went on killing sprees. This was a way for them to circumvent the laws of the Quran and get the people to follow them.

So from the death of Muhammad the Umayyads and Abbasids conquered and took lands but many people who were tired if Christianity infighting joined Islam willingly.

During the period when Christianity was in the dark ages, Islam established the centre of learning in Baghdad which drew scholars from all over the world.

Muhammad’s situation was different in that they had to resist genocide. They had no choice but to defend themselves or be wiped out.

But the conquests afterwards as with the Crusades witnessed both Muslims and Christians disobeying their own Holy Books and instead following blind egotistical leaders who were only interested in wealth and power not God or love anymore.

But today, most Muslims and Christians are peaceful people and so should not be judged on the wrongs of former generations.

The Quran can be seen in two parts,the peaceful fluffy one authored in mecca and the violent verses in medina where they killed all the Jews who had surrendered and took their women and children as slaves,it's also the first time jihad appears in the quran authored in Medina.

 

[Augustus]

Interpreting it for oneself is one thing - trotting out that interpretation as established fact and expecting others to believe it sans questioning is naivete at best. Remember I said that "there is a good chance that..." -

Of course, it's thoroughly unpersuasive to anyone lacking an emotional investment in it being true. But we all interpret things in line with our existing beliefs to some extent.

Actually "religion" fits the parameters of delusion per the DSM for psychiatric disorders - it is given a pass else the majority of the world's people would be considered delusional

Don't you think it is conceptually ludicrous to consider that the vast majority of people in human history have suffered from the same "disorder"?

 

[loverofhumanity]

As a trained medical professional, you should be aware that it is more likely that the person is simply interpreting subjective information in line with their deeply held beliefs and emotional preferences, which is a standard feature of our cognitive hardware.

Seeing as our brain evolved to work in exactly this manner, it is not best described as a delusion, and lying assumes they don't believe it themselves.

People easily believe that which is advantageous to them, it's just the way we work.

So you don’t believe we are spiritual beings capable of understanding spiritual truths? If everything is purely intellectual then how did the disciples of Jesus know Who He was yet the most learned of his time, Caiphas had not a clue.

Earthly knowledge is not the only method we learn. To understand spiritual truths a pure heart not a masters degree is required.

As I stated. There are the most beautiful spiritual hidden meanings in the Holy Books but it requires a spiritual heart and mind not human learning.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Quran can be seen in two parts,the peaceful fluffy one authored in mecca and the violent verses in medina where they killed all the Jews who had surrendered and took their women and children as slaves,it's also the first time jihad appears in the quran authored in Medina.

That is untrue and comes from Hadiths not the Quran which is the only authoritative Word of God for all Muslims.

Only the Quran is qualified to speak about Muhammad’s character. But those who want yo slander him will turn to fabricated Hadiths.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Again and again - you demonstrate that the founders of your faith did not quite have the grasp of reality of a truly enlightened being - and yet you profess to continue believing and advocating -

Your entitled to your views. That’s perfectly alright. Of course I love my Founder and Faith just like you do yours but I don’t think the same about your beliefs. I don’t know much about them but you are welcome to share them with me. I’m sure you believe in a lot of very good principles.

 

[Augustus]

Earthly knowledge is not the only method we learn. To understand spiritual truths a pure heart not a masters degree is required.

What about Jews and Christians with 'pure hearts' who don't even ned to isolate specific verse from their broader context to see a 'spiritual truth' of their texts that is very different to your interpretation?

As I stated. There are the most beautiful spiritual hidden meanings in the Holy Books but it requires a spiritual heart and mind not human learning.

i.e. you see what you want to see based on the beliefs you already hold.

This is your prerogative, we can all interpret literary texts in whatever manner we prefer.

 

[England my lionheart]

That is untrue and comes from Hadiths not the Quran which is the only authoritative Word of God for all Muslims.

Only the Quran is qualified to speak about Muhammad’s character. But those who want yo slander him will turn to fabricated Hadiths.

Any Hadith that shows Muhammed in a poor light are dismissed,nothing new there yet the fact remains that the Medina Quran is more violent.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What about Jews and Christians with 'pure hearts' who don't even ned to isolate specific verse from their broader context to see a 'spiritual truth' of their texts that is very different to your interpretation?




i.e. you see what you want to see based on the beliefs you already hold.

This is your prerogative, we can all interpret literary texts in whatever manner we prefer.

Sure no problems. That’s diversity of thought. But there is a correct interpretation I believe referred to in Revelation 5:5 saying that only One is worthy to unseal the meanings of the Book so only His interpretation counts. Unless we get our interpretation from a Him and I have, then all the other interpretations don’t count.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Any Hadith that shows Muhammed in a poor light are dismissed,nothing new there yet the fact remains that the Medina Quran is more violent.

The law of the Quran permits only self defence. Unprovoked violence towards anyone is forbidden as is murder and theft.

2:190 And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:

J M Rodwell

The Meccans one aim was to commit genocide against the Muslim Community for teaching that there was only one God? Mecca depended on financial tributes to 360 gods for its vast wealth.

So genocide against innocent men, women and children is ok with you? That’s what the Quran is all about describing how the Muslims had to fend off multiple attempts to exterminate them off the face of the earth.

So they should have allowed the Meccans to slaughter them and not defended themselves?

So it’s ok to kill people for their religious beliefs which is what the Meccans were doing to the Muslims?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Any Hadith that shows Muhammed in a poor light are dismissed,nothing new there yet the fact remains that the Medina Quran is more violent.

Just wanted to add I like your name and icon!

 

[Shantanu]

Unless we get our interpretation from a Him and I have, then all the other interpretations don’t count.

He will never interpret: that is left for us humans. It creates the diversity in beliefs and actions. That is what makes the planet an interesting place to live in.

 

[England my lionheart]

Just wanted to add I like your name and icon!

Thanks,it doesn't mean I'm a crusader though,it's just a Kate bush song.

 

[England my lionheart]

The law of the Quran permits only self defence. Unprovoked violence towards anyone is forbidden as is murder and theft.

2:190 And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:

J M Rodwell

The Meccans one aim was to commit genocide against the Muslim Community for teaching that there was only one God? Mecca depended on financial tributes to 360 gods for its vast wealth.

So genocide against innocent men, women and children is ok with you? That’s what the Quran is all about describing how the Muslims had to fend off multiple attempts to exterminate them off the face of the earth.

So they should have allowed the Meccans to slaughter them and not defended themselves?

So it’s ok to kill people for their religious beliefs which is what the Meccans were doing to the Muslims?

Muhammed himself sanctioned caravan raiding,it is also in the Quran "what your right hand posseses",slaves and war booty,Nothing shocking those days but unfortunately it's still relevant to some today.

 

[loverofhumanity]

He will never interpret: that is left for us humans. It creates the diversity in beliefs and actions. That is what makes the planet an interesting place to live in.

If it was a Quraysh caravan and they were at war with them then they did because the Quraysh had stolen all their possessions, homes and businesses and dispossessed them.

 

[loverofhumanity]

He will never interpret: that is left for us humans. It creates the diversity in beliefs and actions. That is what makes the planet an interesting place to live in.

In the Book of Revelation.it states that only the Promised Messiah is able to unlock the true meaning. But that hasn’t stopped others from interpreting it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thanks,it doesn't mean I'm a crusader though,it's just a Kate bush song.

Babooshka was one of my favourites. She got a great voice.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In media, that's other issue, it's means evangelization by force.

Media uses the terminology that islamic terrorists use.
Please don't pretend as if it's a media crusade against islam or whatever.

If the islamic fighters wouldn't use that terminology, then neither would the media.

The calls for jihad is an islamic call. Media just reports on it.

(and I'm talking about proper media - not fox news style propaganda channels)

 

[Shantanu]

In the Book of Revelation.it states that only the Promised Messiah is able to unlock the true meaning. But that hasn’t stopped others from interpreting it.

Their interpretation is pointless speculation: the only thing that matters is for the human mind to use its personal wisdom derived from Consciousness to live adequately.