Islam without hadith

[Djamila]

It still just seems you're willing to jump through more hoops in this regard than I am, The Truth. Your beliefs require you to accept so many abscure things - vanguards, explaining, running in circles with the logic. Mine require me only to listen to the Koran.

 

[Peace]

You are totaly right my sister. we have to listen to what God says therefore, God himself said:

[17] It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:

[18] But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated):

[19] Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear): (Surah 75:17-19)

1- God promised to save Quran and collect it.
2- He ordered us to follow it.
3- God promised that he will explain it for us. Explain what? explain the Quran.

- Who will be in charge of explaining the Quran?
prophet Mohammed.

How we will be able to know how did prophet Mohammed explained it?
Through his teaching in hadiths.

What will happen if we didn't follow what God himself says?
We will astray from the right bath of God and each one of us will explain the Quran and interpret the Quran in his way.

Imagine that each of us has his/her own interpetation of the Quran, then each one of us for instance have alot of children, and each one of thos children has his/her own interpetation of the Quran, then each one of them teach his kids a different interpetation of the Quran. If you think this is the way how it should be, and each one of us just have to read and interpret as he/she please, then say bye to the religion my sister. If this was the case, so we wouldn't have the chance to be muslims "God forbid".



Please my sister, you are confusing yourself in here. We are not talking about the bible. You can use this statment there to talk about those who claim to be inspired by God to write his words bla bla. Be aware my siste to mix up things because this is so dangerous in islam. No muslim ever claimed that God is inspiring him to write in behave of him "God forbid".



I guess you still talking about the bible. We are talking about the Quran my sister.

You have to know that those whom you call by "who the hell are these men", God said about them:

[100] The vanguard (of Islam), the first of those who forsook (their homes)"almohajeroon" and of those who gave them aid "al-ansar", and (also) those who follow them in (all) good deeds, well-pleased is Allah with them "Radhi Allahu Anhum" , as are they with Him: for them Hath He prepared Gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein forever: that is the supreme Felicity. (Surah 9)

The words in black between " ... " is mine. We read the words in red in arabic as Radhi Allahu Anhum in the Quran.

Those men collected the Quran for you. Prophet Mohammed died and there was no such a book called the Quran "written" but those faithful men after the death of prophet Mohammed, those whom God said they will go to heaven even before they die. 10 persons God said that they will go to heaven even before they die. Those people decided to collect the Quran in a book after it was only memorized.

- Who saved the Quran?
God saved the Quran.

- Who did collect the Quran in a written book called "Quran"?
Those men whom you mentioned.

They didn't came after centuries but they witnessed every single verse revealed to prophet Mohammed and all his instructuions to them in how to apply Quran in details in their daily life. Thos men livd with prophet Mohammed and God talked about them in Quran. Enough.

They didn't want to write the hadith in books for many reasons and i have an entire book in my room about it. Some reasons are because people just entered to islam from paganism. They were instructed to memorize the first chapter in Quran "Al-Fatiha" when they enter to islam, then when they want to ask about somthing, then the must ask: those who possess the Message.

[7] Before thee, also, the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message. (Surah 21:7)

But how those who possess the Message will explain for me?
First of all they will try to find it from Quran, then if they didn't find the details so they take from what prophet Mohammed EXPLAINED, then if they didn't find so after that there are several ways and it's not our topic to talks about it now.

So, as you can see, not all the muslims have to memorize the whole Quran nor the whole hadith but those who possess the Message must be aware of all details in the islamic law.

I guess now you know who are those and if you no not, then i'll post for you all their names in here but i guess you know them well, and in the head of them, the Sahabat, Abubaker Al-Sadeeq, Omar bin Al-khatab, etc.

I'm just wondering, where you get your knowledge from?

The scholars in Bosnia agree in what you are saying or it's just your own opnion?

Because no body ever claim that he/she know more than the specialists in religion studies in islam.

Waiting for your answer.

Thank you.

:clap Masha'Allah brother all your posts here are so great and I do agree with every word you said. May Allah reward you for all your efforts!!

Peace

 

[Peace]

"Quran is there for general rules then we can expand from there and on"

But the Koran says it is complete, it even specifically says "nothing was left out of this book".

"Nothing was left out of the book" YES but there are things that must be explained to us and that can't be without our Teacher and Prophet peace be upon him. Do you know who is Muhammad? He is the great perfect Man, the beloved of God who was chosen by Allah from millions of men to be His Prophet to all human kind. Since God entrusted him his words in order to convey it to us, so how can't we trust Him and believe in his Hadith? How can the Quran reaches us without Prophet Muhammad salla Lah `alayhi wa sallam. Don't you know that the contents of the hadith are also from Allah but expressed through the Prophet's own words or actions?


The difference between the Quran and the Hadith has been illustrated by Suyuti (following Juwaini) in the following manner:

'The revealed speech of Allah is of two kinds: As to the first kind, Allah says to Gabriel: Tell the Prophet to whom I sent you that Allah tells him to do this and this, and He ordered him something. So Gabriel understood what His Lord had told him. Then he descended with this to the Prophet and told him what His Lord had told him, but the expression is not this (same) expression, just as a king says to someone upon whom he relies: Tell so-and-so: The king says to you: strive in his service and gather your army for fighting ... and when the messenger (goes and) says: The king tells you: do not fail in my service, and do not let the army break up, and call for fighting, etc., then he has not lied nor shortened (the message) ...
'And as to the other kind, Allah says to Gabriel: Read to the Prophet this (piece of) writing, and Gabriel descended with it from Allah, without altering it the least, just as (if) the king writes a written (instruction) and hands it over to his trustworthy (servant) and says (to him): Read it to so-and-so. Suyuti said: The Qur'an belongs to the second kind, and the first kind is the sunna, and from this derives the reporting of the sunna according to the meaning unlike the Qur'an." [Sabuni, tibyan, p.52]

Who the hell are we to say we need more from God than what he gave us?

We don't claim to need more because the Hadith is also inspired by God.

And who the hell are these men, who wrote these hadiths, to say their words came from God, or from watching the prophet (when he lived, often centuries, before these men?)

They are the same great faithful men (may Allah be pleased with them) who collected our holy book the Quran.

May our dear Allah guide our ways!!!
Peace

 

[TashaN]

Your beliefs require you to accept so many abscure things - vanguards, explaining, running in circles with the logic.

May Allah forgive you for what you said my sister about the saying and the explinations of prophet Mohammed. Yet, you didn't answer me.

From where you get your knowledge?

Mine is from Quran, Hadith and the books of the great scholars of islam.

What about you? where did you get these opnions from?

I'll ask it again, do the scholars in your country agree about what you say in here or it's just your own opnions and thoughts?

 

[TashaN]

:clap Masha'Allah brother all your posts here are so great and I do agree with every word you said. May Allah reward you for all your efforts!!

Peace

Thanks my beloved sister. May Allah reward all of us, muslims for searching for the truth always wherever it is amongest us.

We don't claim to need more because the Hadith is also inspired by God.

Indeed, God said in the Quran:

[2] Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled,

[3] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.

[4] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him: (Surah 53:2-4)

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I'm sorry that was unclear. I meant something less precise, schools of thought rather than the traditional schools of jurisprudence. That is, do the reliance on hadith, the differences between collections of hadith, and different views on hadith contribute to disunity among Sunni Muslims, among Shi'a Muslims, and/or between Sunnis and Shi'a?

I apologize for the misunderstanding. All the schools of thought are based on some Hadith. In as much as soom of the muslims had access to. Remember, no internet or fax and you have a fast landspace with different tribes spread throughout. The reason the mentioned the schools is because all muslims who follow in the sunnah of the messenger accept 1 of the 4. The reason is because Some of the companions taught in a few specific areas. And they are the ones who preserved the hadith for us. And the majority of hadith compilation was done with them at that time and the schools formed out of this. this is where many of the hadith were written and recorded by scholars translated it to the letter from the one they got it from. For instance Imam Malik in the Maliki muthhab took many of his hadith from Nafie. Nafie was a freed slave to Ibn Omar, who was a companion to the prophet. Not many in the chain between him and the messenger. And it is relayed in this manner. Muhammed then probably Omar then his son ibn Omar and then Nafie to Malik. This is how hadith is transmitted. the Shia have there own books. The Shia do not accept the succession of the position of the Kalifa to Abu Bakr. They feel only the family of the messenger should succeed him. Since all his sons died it would only be Ali. But who was the one who was with the Prophet the most. It was Abu Bakr. so they have done many things to try to make their case seem true. Which is why many of there hadith contradict. They do things that are not in the sunnah of the messenger such as how they pray and other rituals they perform. Islam is not Islam without hadith. This is the words and actions of the one whom God chose to give mankind his pure message. A mercy and warner of the Day of Judgment. It is vital in understanding our religion. How would we know some of the answers to the questions some of the companions asked without hadith. How would we be able to catalog the history of our religion together with the proper understanding of the Quran. We cannot.

As long as you must interpret the Qur'an in light of the hadith, do the hadith have an authority that is in effect greater than that of the Qur'an itself, because the Qur'an is viewed through the lens of a particular approach to hadith?

Nothing is higher then the Quran in Islam. If a hadith contradicts the quran then we question the hadith. And scholars have found many and recognized them and written many books.

If Muslims didn't have different views of hadith and different collections of hadith, would they be have fewer disagreements among themselves, or consider their disagreements of less importance?

Of course, you are eliminating a major part of the problem.

Or do the hadith help Muslims to agree among themselves?

It does amongst those who are the correct path but people deviate. They are gonna disagree but we shouldn't hate each other that is the problem. in the time of the companions and the messenger they had disagreements but they loved each other.

Without hadith, would there be more disagreement among Muslims?

Absolutely, because you are taking away the life and example of the one who brought it.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hi,

In my opinion, Hadeeth is important. Simply because the Quraan, no.1 source of Islamic teachings, says it in the verse 21 of chapter 33 (Al Ahzab). Indirectly, true, but it is clearly implied there when it says that the Prophet is exemplary and Hadeeth is part of him, so it is important.

There is also verse 7 of chapter 59 (Al Hashr)

I invite you all to read those verses thoroughly.

This however does not mean that we take any hadeeth for granted with out doing the absolute best to confirm its authenticity, and I understand any controversy in this because hadeeth is not eternally protected like Quraan so it could be very difficult to confirm its authenticity. One way to confirm it is by agreement from different trusty sources, not to mention thinking and using logic in the meaning.

Just my humble opinion.

Notes: verse means ayah and chapter means surah

 

[Union]

Prophet Muhammad didn't have any clue what Hadith was , as like Prophet Jesus didn't have any clue what Gospels were . But both were propagated in their names after some hundred years of their demise .

 

[SeekerOfGod]

Prophet Muhammad didn't have any clue what Hadith was , as like Prophet Jesus didn't have any clue what Gospels were . But both were propagated in their names after some hundred years of their demise .

Peace be on you,


How do you know that?

 

[Union]

Peace be on you,

How do you know that?

Tell me when was the manuscript of Bukhari written and where was it kept now ? I am just mentioning Bukhari for example for it being the pioneer than all .

 

[seeking4truth]

Without doubt, to a Muslim the Holy Quran is the revealed word of God and contains His guidance and instructions for us to understand and develop a relationship with Him and is protected by Him.

However, the Holy Prophet was the man who achieved the closest relationship with God and God Himself says in the Holy Quran "You have in the prophet of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes to meet with his lord and remembers Allah much".

This means that the haddith can help in understanding what the Holy Prophet thought but IF it contradicts the teaching of the Quran it cannot be accepted in preference.

Don't forget that every witness to any event will see it differently.

What is the difference in the method of reporting and/or following Haddith and Sunnah?

 

[Shia Islam]

All Muslims, and Islamic sects- with all their differences- since the days of the prophet, agree on this:

Islam without hadith is NOT Islam.

The argument for such made-up Islam is so weak that Muslims don't even take seriously.

 

[SeekerOfGod]

Tell me when was the manuscript of Bukhari written and where was it kept now ? I am just mentioning Bukhari for example for it being the pioneer than all .

Bukhari was compiled sometime after the Holy Prophet Muhammad(saw). But that is not to say that he was not aware of it-remember he was a Prophet of Allah and it is possible that Allah could have revealed this to him. However, this is not my point- even if it was revealed to him and then recorded as a Hadith, in Quranists perspective this still should have been rejected. In other words Quranists should never be sure of whether this knowledge was revealed to Holy Prophet Muhammad(saw)- that's why I asked you, "how do you know?" I would still be interested to know the answer.

As someone pointed out from the Quran that the Holy prophet is like model for all mankind, it is a major question, (excuse my ignorance) how the Quranists try to emulate the Prophet Muhammad(saw)- do the Quranists accept the Sunnah , but reject the Hadith,or do they reject both?

Also, as I understand do the Quranists view the prophets as merely channel's through whom the revealed law is passed - what of the prophets that bought no law and thus no book? Are those prophets only for a single generation? - as almost nothing is recorded of them?

Jazakallah

 

[Union]

Bukhari was compiled sometime after the Holy Prophet Muhammad(saw). But that is not to say that he was not aware of it-remember he was a Prophet of Allah and it is possible that Allah could have revealed this to him. However, this is not my point- even if it was revealed to him and then recorded as a Hadith, in Quranists perspective this still should have been rejected. In other words Quranists should never be sure of whether this knowledge was revealed to Holy Prophet Muhammad(saw)- that's why I asked you, "how do you know?" I would still be interested to know the answer.

As someone pointed out from the Quran that the Holy prophet is like model for all mankind, it is a major question, (excuse my ignorance) how the Quranists try to emulate the Prophet Muhammad(saw)- do the Quranists accept the Sunnah , but reject the Hadith,or do they reject both?

Also, as I understand do the Quranists view the prophets as merely channel's through whom the revealed law is passed - what of the prophets that bought no law and thus no book? Are those prophets only for a single generation? - as almost nothing is recorded of them?

Jazakallah

You answered the first but not the next . Where is the manuscript of the Bukhari ?

Yes , Hadith came long after the Prophet and his companions , which they didn't have any clue of . From those hundred thousands (assumed 1,24,000 ) of Prophet's companions left a single hadith , there could be some 1,24,000 Hadith exist . But not a single ever exist . On the other hand they compiled the Qur'an and made it sure to preseve it for their next generations . You may move around Topkapi , Sana, Cairo , Pittsburgh , Samarkand etc. , you will find these manuscripts still exist .

Whatsoever , Qur'an is the Hadith and Sunnah of Prophet . When Qur'an says ' Give charity to poor ones' [2.215] , Prophet Muhammad recited ot to the people and accomplished its action and in turns following 2.215 is following the Sunnah of Prophet .

It can not be simpler than this :

01- Prophet Muhammad and his companions never know Hadith and hence they left no manuscript of Hadith . But they left Qur'an in preserved hard copy - which is the only source of Islam .

02- To follow Qur'an is tantamount to follow the Sunnah of Prophet .

 

[SeekerOfGod]

You answered the first but not the next . Where is the manuscript of the Bukhari ?

I don't know. Do inform me.

Yes , Hadith came long after the Prophet and his companions , which they didn't have any clue of . From those hundred thousands (assumed 1,24,000 ) of Prophet's companions left a single hadith , there could be some 1,24,000 Hadith exist . But not a single ever exist . On the other hand they compiled the Qur'an and made it sure to preseve it for their next generations . You may move around Topkapi , Sana, Cairo , Pittsburgh , Samarkand etc. , you will find these manuscripts still exist .

If I understand correctly, you said that the Qur'an is unique in the sense that it was preserved, unlike the earlier scriptures. My question to you (which I asked earlier) was that since the preservation of earlier scriptures was weak, would it have made sense for followers of earlier prophets to have completely rejected their prophets, soon after they had passed away, in Quranists perspective?

You repeatedly state that the Holy Prophet(sa) was not aware of the existence of the Hadith. For arguments sake, lets assume that the Holy Prophet (sa) was not aware of the existence of Hadith compilations. Equivalently he (sa), speculatively, was not aware of Qur'an translations. Should we therefore, not translate Qur'an in any other language?

Whatsoever , Qur'an is the Hadith and Sunnah of Prophet . When Qur'an says ' Give charity to poor ones' [2.215] , Prophet Muhammad recited ot to the people and accomplished its action and in turns following 2.215 is following the Sunnah of Prophet .

It can not be simpler than this :

01- Prophet Muhammad and his companions never know Hadith and hence they left no manuscript of Hadith . But they left Qur'an in preserved hard copy - which is the only source of Islam .

02- To follow Qur'an is tantamount to follow the Sunnah of Prophet .

How do you know that the Qur'an is the Hadith and the Sunnah of the Prophet? Unless it is confirmed in the Holy Qur'an, surely, to know that you have to study the 'Hadith' and the 'Sunnah', don't you?

Jazakallah

 

[Union]

I don't know. Do inform me.

It doesn't exist

If I understand correctly, you said that the Qur'an is unique in the sense that it was preserved, unlike the earlier scriptures. My question to you (which I asked earlier) was that since the preservation of earlier scriptures was weak, would it have made sense for followers of earlier prophets to have completely rejected their prophets, soon after they had passed away, in Quranists perspective?

[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

Hopefully this verse answers your question .

You repeatedly state that the Holy Prophet(sa) was not aware of the existence of the Hadith. For arguments sake, lets assume that the Holy Prophet (sa) was not aware of the existence of Hadith compilations. Equivalently he (sa), speculatively, was not aware of Qur'an translations. Should we therefore, not translate Qur'an in any other language?

I don't know how your analogy comes into the play of the context . Whatsoever translation is not the Qur'an , but a possible close meaning to Qur'an . Nobody says English translation of Qur'an is revealed by ALLAH (swt) but a translation of the original Arabic Qur'an revlealed by ALLAH (swt).

How do you know that the Qur'an is the Hadith and the Sunnah of the Prophet? Unless it is confirmed in the Holy Qur'an, surely, to know that you have to study the 'Hadith' and the 'Sunnah', don't you?

Jazakallah

These topics may can help you :

100s of sayings of Prophet in Qur'an
What does ‘ Obey GOD and obey the Messenger’ really mean ?

 

[SeekerOfGod]

It doesn't exist





[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

Hopefully this verse answers your question .

It doesn't. This verse discusses the status of the Quran, how it fulfills previous scriptures and how it supersedes them. But that was not what I was asking. I asked:
since the preservation of earlier scriptures was weak, would it have made sense for followers of earlier prophets to have completely rejected their prophets, soon after they had passed away, in Quranists perspective? I ask this because the Hadith are not as strongly preserved as the Quran is. Similarly, the earlier scriptures weren't as preserved as the Quran is. So shouldn't it make sense for followers of earlier prophets to have rejected their prophets soon after they had passed away since there is no strong preservation record of their scriptures at all?

I don't know how your analogy comes into the play of the context . Whatsoever translation is not the Qur'an , but a possible close meaning to Qur'an . Nobody says English translation of Qur'an is revealed by ALLAH (swt) but a translation of the original Arabic Qur'an revlealed by ALLAH (swt).

No one says that the Hadith are the words of Allah, nor (technically speaking) the 'words of the prophet', rather the 'words of the prophet heard by his companions and so on'. Similarly, the translations are 'words of Allah translated by people'. The comparison seems valid to me.

These topics may can help you :

100s of sayings of Prophet in Qur'an
What does ‘ Obey GOD and obey the Messenger’ really mean ?

Why "obey God and the obey the messenger", why not just "obey God"?

 

[safdar.dushantappeh]

In my opinion, Hadeeth is important. Simply because the Quraan, no.1 source of Islamic teachings, says it in the verse 21 of chapter 33 (Al Ahzab). Indirectly, true, but it is clearly implied there when it says that the Prophet is exemplary and Hadeeth is part of him, so it is important.

Thanks for the verse Smart_Guy
But in the posted analysis of criticisms of simple Islam, this particular verse was already discussed in detail. Here is a link to another post in this forum that covers this subject:
Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / Islam Without Hadith

Just in case, I copy-paste the related excerpt here as well:

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often. (21)​

The critics of Simple Islam argue that how one can take the prophet as a pattern after he has been dead; thus, there must a way to transmit his lifestyle to the muslims who are born after centuries so that they also can take the prophet as a pattern. The critics then introduce Hadith and Hadith-mining as a solution to this problem.
To be able to employ this argument one must first show that "you" in the verse refers to all the believers of the history. However, facts are indicating otherwise. For example, if we do not separate this verse from the context and look at the verse before:
They think the companies have not [yet] withdrawn. And if the companies should come [again], they would wish they were in the desert among the bedouins, inquiring [from afar] about your news. And if they should be among you, they would not fight except for a little. (20) There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often. (21)
we see that "you" is referring to the muslims who were fighting with the prophet at the battle of Ahzab.
If we look at the other usages of the term "excellent pattern" in Quran, we see that Quran considers also Abraham and those with him as an excellent pattern for the muslims of the time of Muhammad.
There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination. (4)
Does this mean that there was a science of Hadith at the time of Muhammad and the Hadiths attributed to Abraham and those with him were being collected and mined? Does this mean that we at this time must also collect and mine Hadiths attributed to Abraham? The answer is No. In this verse, Quran clearly explains that to which behavior of Abraham and those with him it is referring and asks the believers of Medina to take that particular behavior as a pattern. Now, if we take another look at the usage of the term "excellent pattern" for Muhammad, we see that the chapter is about the people who are looking for excuses to escape from the battle of Ahzab and Quran commands them to take the prophet as an excellent pattern and like him stand still.

 

[safdar.dushantappeh]

All Muslims, and Islamic sects- with all their differences- since the days of the prophet, agree on this:

Islam without hadith is NOT Islam.

The argument for such made-up Islam is so weak that Muslims don't even take seriously.

Thanks Shia Islam for sharing your opinion with us. To be more constructive, we could also support our opinions with arguments. To argue that which understanding of Islam is closer to the Islam that Quran depicts, we can use Quran as a reference. I analyzed all the Qurani arguments I received in the past and they all seem to be taken out of context and/or be subject of hasty interpretation. In other words, from Quran I do not see any evidence supporting Hadith-based way of practicing religion nor against a Hadith-less one. The links to the detailed analysis can be found in the post mentioned below. I appreciate if you could give it a read and perhaps we can discuss each argument one by one in that post:

Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / Islam Without Hadith

 

[safdar.dushantappeh]

However, the Holy Prophet was the man who achieved the closest relationship with God and God Himself says in the Holy Quran "You have in the prophet of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes to meet with his lord and remembers Allah much".

This means that the haddith can help in understanding what the Holy Prophet thought but IF it contradicts the teaching of the Quran it cannot be accepted in preference.

Hi seeking4truth,

I my previous post in this thread I did a modest attempt to analyze this verse. I appreciate if you could take a look at the analysis and perhaps we can continue the discussion on the following post, which is dedicated to Quran-based criticisms of Islam without Hadith:

Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Abrahamic Religions DIR / Islam DIR / Qur'anist DIR / Islam Without Hadith