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Featured Islam, the unexploded bomb

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Looncall, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "frequently" Unquote.
    I have checked all of one's posts in this thread earlier than this one, the word frequently I don't find in them.

    Regards
     
  2. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    No need to quote in or out of context, it's biggest flaw is its inability to prove itself, its not alone in that department though, its flaws are that it was authored by a human with very human desires, money women and land, nothing new really.
     
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  3. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to consider it.
    I understand what you are trying to say, but the texts I used required no interpretation. That's an unnecessary problem created by those who don't really care about the Bible, but are interested in their own selfish interest - more often filling the pews with "rice Christians" so they can extract as much money as they can.

    Contrary to that attitude, Jesus gave his followers a nice principle to follow.
    Matthew 10:8
    However, that's a story that probably may be required to be told later..

    Hup. The story apparently needs to be told now.
    Matthew 15:3
    Notice that Jesus did not say they used or followed God's word. He said they followed their own traditions.
    What a difference!

    Those people do not use the Bible to carry out their action. They use their own twisted reasoning.
    During the dark ages, when they were carrying out the inquisitions, they were not using the Bible. That was their twisted mind.
    During the Rwandan genocide, they were not using the Bible. It was their twisted mind.
    When people that call themselves Christian, are doing bad things, they are not using the Bible. Rather, they are doing what the Bible condemns.

    When they are raping, and sodomizing, torturing, and terrorizing, and all the other things I mentioned before, it's not the Bible they are using.
    This is the point Unveiled Artist was making earlier.

    I think people are so opposed to the Bible simply because they don't want to follow its high standards of living, so they are looking for excuses to condemn the Bible by pointing the finger at it. They do the same with God. ...but I say, if one hates the Bible, and God, just say so, and leave it alone. There is no need to make excuses. God is not mock. We can't fool him. That's what the Pharisees in Jesus' day were guilty of thinking, and there are modern day Pharisees today, as well.
    Are you with me?
     
  4. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Scrub the ‘newly’ and ‘Anti’ parts of that statement and you will receive overwhelming agreement.
     
  5. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    A few posts prior to the one I'm quoting above, you criticised someone for quoting a Quranic verse out of context. Now you advocate that someone else do the exact thing you just criticised.

    Is quoting a Quranic verse 'out of context' okay or is it not?
     
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  6. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    Hold on. The Quran is supposed to be the eternally true word of your god, correct? If that's the case then arguments from temporal context are rendered invalid as the Quran is as completely true now as it was when it was written.

    Also, if you're going to insist on applying the 'out of context' argument, do you ever apply that argument to the 'no compulsion in religion' verse?
     
  7. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    No. You are changing goalposts. The OP claims that Islam says that Muslims must exterminate non-Muslims. Nothing like that exists in the Quran. That's my point and you have failed to show otherwise yet.
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "Is quoting a Quranic verse 'out of context' okay or is it not?" Unquote.

    I said that for correct understanding of a verse, the verses in its context are to be quoted. If I said anything against it, please give the post # so that I may amend it accordingly ,please.
    Regards
     
  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    That should also be seen from the context, please.
    Regards
     
  10. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    What exactly do think I need to come clean about? I read the entire danged book. I understand the claim that there is often a broader context than what's in an individual verse. And I'll even tell you I agree with that much.

    But what you seem to be ignoring is cognitive science. What you seem to be ignoring more specifically is the effect of the unending repetition in the book. You haven't spoken to the fact that the Quran bashes non-Muslims over and over and over and over again ad nauseam.
     
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  11. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    As I read your post, it strikes me that you're trying to have it both ways. You would like us to appreciate the bible when people act correctly in its name, but you want to exonerate the bible when people do evil things in its name.

    I would love to have sort of job! Give me credit when things work out well, but shield me when things go badly?
     
  12. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Ok, I see the misunderstanding. I think the OP was somewhat, but not entirely accurate. So my posts were not intended to defend the every jot and tittle of the OP (a little bible humor there for the crowd).

    Having said that, I will say that by far the most parsimonious reading of the Quran is that at the very least, Muslims should detest non-Muslims. According to the Quran, we non-Muslims are sometimes like pigs, always dishonest, never to be befriended, the enemies of allah, disloyal in general, and on and on and on. And of course - with the proper context - there are a seemingly endless array of situations in which it's just fine to kill non-Muslims.

    Can you explain why the Quran is SO fixated on enumerating the various situations in which killing non- Muslims is okay? It doesn't strike me as a peaceful, timeless orientation.
     
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  13. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    @paarsurrey @sayak83 @Niblo

    Below is a link to a webpage that lists 527 times that the Quran preaches intolerance towards non-Muslims.

    527 times !!!!

    Can any of you explain to us non-Muslims what overarching message we should take away from the Quran's fixation on denigrating non-Muslims? Is this consistent with calling Islam a religion of peace?

    An Inquiry Into Islam: Search results for intolerance

    In case your thought is to criticize the website, I would suggest that that is not a refutation. The website is making a very specific and detailed claim. Either there are over 500 instances of intolerance in the Quran or there are not.
     
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  14. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Its not a peaceful timeless orientation. I have criticized Islam often enough here on many of its quite severe deficiencies.
    In context of the OP however, I would say that orthodox Islam is no more an unexploded bomb than OT Judaism or evangelical Christianity. All these religion's scriptures show equivalent levels of intolerance towards heretics and non-converts as does Quranic Islam.
     
    #94 sayak83, Oct 3, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  15. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    04 okt 2018 stvdv Religion
    Agreed. Koran inflames the problem; being this "fanatic destructive Muslim". Sane people need no supervision, but these religious people do need
    YES we should be realistic. You don't give drugs to a drug addict and similar don't give Koran and Bible to narcissistic Muslims and Christians.
    All Muslims/Christians believe/speak/act as if their belief is superior I call narcissists. Smart and best would be "Ban these violent Scripture verses"

    As parents do you read violent verses to your child? NO! That's proof. Narcissists, according to psychology, got stuck between age 4 and 7
     
    #95 stvdv, Oct 4, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  16. Looncall

    Looncall Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Thank you.
    However, this sounds like something that can be stretched to suit. What is an attack? Is not being Muslim an excuse for genocide? The Yazidis found it so. Is being the wrong kind if Muslim an attack? The endless sectarian warfare that Muslims love so much indiçates that it is taken to be so.
     
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  17. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    This former Muslim has some valuable information about the topic.

     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    A father has two sons.
    One - the older - tries to follow his father's good example - hardworking, a loving kind and supportive husband and father, etc.
    The other son follows a selfish debauched lifestyle.

    Some people in the community, praise the actions of the younger, and commend him for his efforts to follow his father's good example.
    Some others look at the younger boy in contempt, and point the finger at his father, and say, "That contemptible man is responsible for this boy's bad ways. he should be shot."

    S1
    Me: You know that the Father is really a good man, and the older boy demonstrated that he appreciated his father and the qualities he displayed. The younger boy on the other hand followed his own selfish ways, perhaps he was led astray by wayward youth.
    Critics: Beeeeeeeeeeeep Wrong.

    S2
    Me: You know that the Father is really bad, He had two sons, and he couldn't even get both to do the right thing. How disgusting he is.
    Critics: Bravo! Here Here! Absolutely right!

    Is that okay?
     
  19. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    I do NOT think yours is a good analogy. Religious people voluntarily decide to place their scripture on an extremely high pedestal. By your own definitions, these books are perfect. So your analogy seems to me to be a different flavor of eating your cake and wanting it too. In other words it seems to me that you're saying: "My book is perfect, but don't judge it more harshly than you would judge a man."
     
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  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying the book is perfect. Nothing here is.
    I am saying that there are people who have a problem with the book, - not necessarily based on anything they can present any clear argument on - other than what they believe, even when asked to show it. So they find it convention to point at people who claim to belong to or follow the main character in the book, but which evidence show that they are lying - and they want everyone to take their side, and have issues with the book even if everyone don't find any evidence of those issues.

    In other words, they are people that are not happy to hold a view against God or the Bible, unless everyone else agrees with their views. ...and if one doesn't agree with their views, then those ones are considered as "wanting to have their cake, and eat it too".
    ...but that can never be the case with the ones who have an issue with the Bible, because they are always right, even though they can never produce a solid argument that stand up to scrutiny.

    That's how I see it.
     
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