Islam, the unexploded bomb

[stvdv]

What was said about Muhammad and Islam? Regards Tony

Major lesson of Sai Baba is "All religions can lead you to the Truth; no need to change religion and never belittle the faith of others; hence evangelizing, Sai Baba says, leads people away from God towards atheism. Atheism can also lead you to the Truth, as can Humanism".

Sai Baba never criticized any religion as far as I know. Just highlights the good. But does tell that unfortunately Muslims as well as all other religious people fail to practice the good the scriptures offer (from the link below)
Unity and purity: message of Ramzan | Sathya Sai International Organization - USA

Spoiler: Few Other quote From Sai Baba

True wisdom lies in discerning and discovering the fundamental unity behind the superficial differences in the world culture. The same thing applies to the concept of religions too. To say that Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc. are different religions betrays not only narrow-mindedness but also the lack of understanding about the meaning of "religion". "Religion" means "Realisation". Since realisation is one and the same, irrespective of whatever religion is professed by different men, it logically follows that basically all religions are one; or to be more accurate, there is only one religion.

Our people have forgotten the greatness of Bharat and have instead started extolling other countries. This does not mean that you have to criticise other countries. All countries are good in their own special way, and we must see the good in all. All religions too, are good. What then is bad? It is the mind that is bad and polluted! It is on account of mental aberrations that people quarrel about religions, decrying some and praising others. All religions teach only good, And one has to follow the teachings Using one's discrimination. If the mind is pure, No religion would appear bad. All religions are good Christianity, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism. All religions are good without exception. Only when the mind is polluted do other religions appear bad. Your perception of religion is influenced by your mind. The mind is a powerful instrument that can travel very fast.

No religion should be crtiticised or reviled. One should imbibe the sweet essence in all religions. The essence of all religions is the principle of Oneness, the principle of Love. When you cultivate this principle of love, there is no room for hatred. Conflicts are caused due to selfishness Today religion is regarded as the cause for all the conflict, violence and bitterness in the world. But, matham (religion) is not the cause. Mathulu (Selfish minds) are responsible for all the conflict. Are there not conflicts in countries with only one religion? People in Iran and Iraq profess the same Islamic faith. What is the reason for the conflict between them? What is the reason for conflicts between countries which profess Christianity? In Bharat, all are Bharatiyas. But why is there discord amongst them? When we examine this question deeply, we find that religions are not the real reason for these conflicts. Only selfish minds are the cause. Wearing the garb of religion, these selfish persons are inciting conflicts among the people. Embodiments of Divine Love! If you desire to secure genuine peace in the world, you should not have any antipathy towards religion. You must hold neethi (morality) as superior to your jaathi (community). You must cherish good feelings as more important than religious beliefs. Mamatha (mutual regard), samatha (equalmindedness) and kshamatha (forbearance) are basic qualities necessary for every human being. Only the person with these three qualities can be regarded as a true man. It is essential that everyone should cultivate these three sacred qualities. Try to live harmoniously How did differences arise within each religion? After the passing of the founders of these religions, the followers violated the teachings of the founders and quarrelled among themselves on account of their selfish interests. With the passage of time, schisms developed in each religion

 

[Audie]

That is not the Truth.

What is the unexploded bomb is ignorance of the circumstances faced and facts given by Muhammad in the Quran.

Regards Tony

Zero credibility

 

[nPeace]

Is the Bible to blame for the inquisitions, the rapes and sodomizing of young girls and boys, the tortures, the drugs and guns trade, the terrorist attacks, the civil and world wars, the genocides, the pollution of the planet...?

 

[icehorse]

Do you think that the world will avoid a third war if the bible and the quran were thrown away?

War would be less likely if we threw these dusty old books away.

 

[icehorse]

Is the Bible to blame for the inquisitions, the rapes and sodomizing of young girls and boys, the tortures, the drugs and guns trade, the terrorist attacks, the civil and world wars, the genocides, the pollution of the planet...?

Sadly, to a large degree, I'd say yes it is.

 

[nPeace]

Sadly, to a large degree, I'd say yes it is.

How so?

 

[icehorse]

And this point has been comprehensively refuted how many times now? It is incomprehensible how any rational person can't or won't understand such simple reading comprehension tasks.

Here's one translation of 2:191. You can easily find more, but this one seems representative:

And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- îaram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Now remember that Muslims (and in some cases the Quran itself), instruct us on a few useful considerations when we read the Quran:

1 - The Quran (we're told), is timeless.
2 - The Quran is the perfect word of god.
3 - The Quran is easy to understand.

Apologists often argue as follows:

- "You have to understand the context." To which I say, not if it's timeless I don't.

- "You're not a scholar." To which I say, the book declares itself to be easy to understand.

==

Finally, the Quran denigrates non-Muslims over 500 times. This verse is just one example of many. Have you actually read the book?

 

[icehorse]

How so?

We could fill volumes with this discussion, so I'll just make a few points. But understand that critics of the Bible and Christianity (like me), have a lot of evidence:

- The bible and the quran and such are instruction manuals. They were written by men a long time ago, when we knew a tiny fraction of what we know now. The men who wrote these books had only the tiniest worldview, and their educations were laughable by today's standards. But they tried to make good instruction manuals for their time and place.

So we have instructions like "go forth and multiply". That was a good idea 2000 years ago, but it's a bad idea now, as human population grows towards 8 billion and our topsoil and aquifers and fisheries are unsustainably depleted.

How about "spare the rod, spoil the child"? That one doesn't hold up well to modern scrutiny.

Then we have "take no care for the morrow." That's a great one for folks who like to shout "drill baby drill."

 

[LuisDantas]

Islaam relies on an expectation of reverence and privilege.

Christianity used to have similar expectations, but has since learned better.

But Islaam has a much harder time of it, in no small degree because it is inherently a far more arrogant doctrine.

 

[sayak83]

Here's one translation of 2:191. You can easily find more, but this one seems representative:



Now remember that Muslims (and in some cases the Quran itself), instruct us on a few useful considerations when we read the Quran:

1 - The Quran (we're told), is timeless.
2 - The Quran is the perfect word of god.
3 - The Quran is easy to understand.

Apologists often argue as follows:

- "You have to understand the context." To which I say, not if it's timeless I don't.

- "You're not a scholar." To which I say, the book declares itself to be easy to understand.

==

Finally, the Quran denigrates non-Muslims over 500 times. This verse is just one example of many. Have you actually read the book?

Its a timeless injunction that Muslims can fight in self-defense if and when attacked even during the month of Ramzan near the holy mosque. And yes, it is very very easy to understand if read in full.

And fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Truly God loves not the transgressors. 191 And slay them wheresoever you come upon them, and expel them whence they expelled you, for strife is worse than slaying. But do not fight with them near the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you there. But if they fight you, then slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. 192 But if they desist, then truly God is Forgiving, Merciful. 193 And fight them until there is no strife, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then there is no enmity save against the wrongdoers.

What you are doing here is nothing but blatant quote mining. And I pointed this out earlier too, here,

Nothing to do with Islam?

 

[stvdv]

The problem is not the Koran. If I read the Koran I do not go around chopping of heads of non-Muslims
The problem is the arrogant cruel fanatic Muslims who, blinded by hate without compassion, want to kill

 

[Faithofchristian]

Imagine that there is an unexploded bomb or mine or some such buried in your back yard. You know you must walk carefully to avoid triggering an explosion, that the bomb might go off by itself, or that the brat next door might chuck a stone over the fence, blowing up your yard.

Most Muslims are good people, but they follow a religion that explicitly calls for the extermination of non-muslims. Fortunately almost everyone is more moral than their religion, so that is rarely a problem.

However, the chance of an explosion is always there. For example when the metaphorical brat throws a cartoon over the metaphorical fence, the result is an explosion of threats, murderous riots and killings.

How can Muslims allay the suspicion of themselves that this situation produces?

For everything that you given, Your answer to all these questions lays in the Muslims
Qu'ran that promotes all these things that you spoken on.

 

[icehorse]

Its a timeless injunction that Muslims can fight in self-defense if and when attacked even during the month of Ramzan near the holy mosque. And yes, it is very very easy to understand if read in full.

I gave you one example. There are hundreds. And yes, for many examples the apologist can zoom out to include more verses and concoct a context to soften the verse in question (as you've done above.)

But that does NOT make for an easy to understand book. That approach requires a fairly advanced understanding of boolean logic to parse. And we've seen - since day one of Islam - that according to apologists, the book has been endlessly misinterpreted. Really? The ancient Sunni-Shia conflict doesn't tell you anything about the true nature of the book?

Really? The fact that non-Muslims are denigrated over 500 times doesn't speak to you? You really think that an average person can walk away from the book with the conclusion that non-Muslims are really okay except in 500 unique situations?

The reality is that if you read the book, you have to do extensive mental gymnastics to declare it peaceful. It is anything but.

 

[sayak83]

I gave you one example. There are hundreds. And yes, for many examples the apologist can zoom out to include more verses and concoct a context to soften the verse in question (as you've done above.)

But that does NOT make for an easy to understand book. That approach requires a fairly advanced understanding of boolean logic to parse. And we've seen - since day one of Islam - that according to apologists, the book has been endlessly misinterpreted. Really? The ancient Sunni-Shia conflict doesn't tell you anything about the true nature of the book?

Really? The fact that non-Muslims are denigrated over 500 times doesn't speak to you? You really think that an average person can walk away from the book with the conclusion that non-Muslims are really okay except in 500 unique situations?

The reality is that if you read the book, you have to do extensive mental gymnastics to declare it peaceful. It is anything but.

Changing goalposts. The question here is where in the Quran does it say that Muslims are required to exterminate non-Muslims.
Islam, the unexploded bomb
The paragraph you quote mined does not say anything remotely like that.
If you still believe that Quran ordains any such thing, I will be eagerly waiting for the corresponding paragraph of the book. And I do mean that sincerely.

 

[sayak83]

I gave you one example. There are hundreds. And yes, for many examples the apologist can zoom out to include more verses and concoct a context to soften the verse in question (as you've done above.)

But that does NOT make for an easy to understand book. That approach requires a fairly advanced understanding of boolean logic to parse. And we've seen - since day one of Islam - that according to apologists, the book has been endlessly misinterpreted. Really? The ancient Sunni-Shia conflict doesn't tell you anything about the true nature of the book?

Really? The fact that non-Muslims are denigrated over 500 times doesn't speak to you? You really think that an average person can walk away from the book with the conclusion that non-Muslims are really okay except in 500 unique situations?

The reality is that if you read the book, you have to do extensive mental gymnastics to declare it peaceful. It is anything but.

Here was another that was clearly saying nothing like extermination at all.
Nothing to do with Islam?

 

[icehorse]

Here was another that was clearly saying nothing like extermination at all.
Nothing to do with Islam?

Well if your point is that the Quran is inconsistent and incoherent, I can agree with that

 

[icehorse]

Changing goalposts. The question here is where in the Quran does it say that Muslims are required to exterminate non-Muslims.

Yes, you are changing goalposts. I never made such a specific claim. My claim is that the Quran frequently instructs Muslims to wage war against (and kill), non-Muslims. I already gave you one example. If you read the book then surely you must know there are many more.

 

[Jim]

How can Muslims allay the suspicion of themselves that this situation produces?

They can’t. The only thing that can do that is freeing people from racial and religious prejudices. One thing that people can do to help reduce prejudices against Muslims is to help diversify people’s images of what Muslims look like and what they do, to break up the stereotypes.

 

[nPeace]

We could fill volumes with this discussion, so I'll just make a few points. But understand that critics of the Bible and Christianity (like me), have a lot of evidence:

A person like me - a Christian - who loves the Bible, and find it to be just as it is described by one of its writers - the apostle Paul, who said...

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

I have time to hear the "evidence" that critics say they have.
Surely if there is so much evidence of what you just claimed, you should be at least able to provide three at most of the hardest.

- The bible and the quran and such are instruction manuals. They were written by men a long time ago, when we knew a tiny fraction of what we know now.

It is assumed that those who wrote the Bible only knew a tiny fraction of what we now know, but the evidence do not show that.
Before we ever coined the word science, the Bible long ago had laws on hygiene, blood and it's purpose and usage, poverty prevention, the earth and nature, precipitation and other cycles, etc.

If you were able to fill volumes with the evidence you say you have, I would give you the many details.

The men who wrote these books had only the tiniest worldview, and their educations were laughable by today's standards. But they tried to make good instruction manuals for their time and place.

This is a critics viewpoint, but that viewpoint evidently is not true.

So we have instructions like "go forth and multiply". That was a good idea 2000 years ago, but it's a bad idea now, as human population grows towards 8 billion and our topsoil and aquifers and fisheries are unsustainably depleted.

Actually, it was many more centuries than two, that the command to "multiply and fill the earth" was given, but guess what? It was given in an arrangement of marriage.
It was not a Biblical command to cohabit with whoever, or whatever one wants to jump on, or jump in to.

Actually, that was condemned, so there is one area that the Bible can {Edit - Wow. What an error} can't be blamed for.
Have you counted the number of unmarried people, and children born out of wedlock?
Out-of-Wedlock Births Rise Worldwide
How We Ended Up With 40 Percent of Children Born Out of Wedlock

This has also contributed to the breakdown in society, and poverty - something we can't blame on the Bible. Agreed?
This breakdown results in a cycle according to sources.
Why Are So Many Millennials Having Children Out of Wedlock?
A new study shows that access to jobs and income inequality are shaping this generation’s decisions to start a family.
Fragile Families: Most Children Born Out of Wedlock Aren’t OK

It's important to note too, that that command was given to persons who had not turned their backs on God's instructions. However, some of their offspring - the minority - always sought to listen to those instructions.

How about "spare the rod, spoil the child"? That one doesn't hold up well to modern scrutiny.

Of course it doesn't hold up in a rebellious society that is so spoiled that the so-called experts in society are asking themselves why the youth are this way, and the answer is staring them right in the eyeball.
That funny.

You know what parents are doing now because they turn up their nose at this loving instruction that million testified worked hundreds of years ago?
They have resorted to abusing them with abusive words, and screaming. Some kill them, and complain that they can't get their two year old child controlled. While some just watch them slowly sucked into gangs, and a life of drug abuse and addiction.
That's sad.

Again, the Bible is not to blame, but rather, a turning away, and rejection of the Bible.

Then we have "take no care for the morrow." That's a great one for folks who like to shout "drill baby drill."

Where is that one found?
Do you mean Matthew 6:34?

Yes, I agree that some translation have done a poor job - particularly the King James version.

Spoiler: "Do not worry, or be anxious", the Bible says

New Living Translation
"So don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today's trouble is enough for today.

English Standard Version
“Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Today has enough trouble of its own.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Sufficient to the day is its own trouble.

New American Standard Bible
"So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

King James Bible
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore don't worry about tomorrow, because tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Contemporary English Version
Don't worry about tomorrow. It will take care of itself. You have enough to worry about today.

Good News Translation
So do not worry about tomorrow; it will have enough worries of its own. There is no need to add to the troubles each day brings.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore don't worry about tomorrow, because tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

International Standard Version
So never worry about tomorrow, because tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

NET Bible
So then, do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Today has enough trouble of its own.

New Heart English Bible
Therefore do not be anxious for tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Surely you are not saying this is bad advise, are you?
What is wrong with this advise, properly rendered?
Every single health agency would encourage this advise. Isn't that so?

If anyone is to blame for anything, it is persons who failed to teach what the Bible says, or to hide its message. This is what has caused the damage. Persons properly instructed have benefited greatly, not only from this text, but all scripture - as apostle Paul said.

 

[England my lionheart]

They can’t. The only thing that can do that is freeing people from racial and religious prejudices. One thing that people can do to help reduce prejudices against Muslims is to help diversify people’s images of what Muslims look like and what they do, to break up the stereotypes.

Or maybe Muslims could free themselves from religious or non religious prejudices against others.