Islam - The arrival of the Mahdi, Isa and the establishment of the New World

[other-side]

Feel good to exchange views with you .

Me 2 friend

You admitted first that Qur’an is complete and detailed in ruling and doctrines , then change the statement by saying that some other books also must needed to explain Qur’an ,

I admit it again but i,m saying Prophet Mohammad(AS) as the messenger of Allah's message has lived among people for 63 years.In these years he perhaps had talked to people explained some traditions for them and had many situations that fit for us too. for example he went to a Mosque and saw two groups in it. one were Praying and one were talking and discussing about things.He said both of them are in the right way but those who are discussing things are better.SO now we have a good and better point here. You can say that's hadith and it is all a lie! But my friend we can't wipe All the Prophet's life and say he came,lived and died and da da "The end!".
Quran says:
لقد كان في رسول الله اسوه الحسنه ...
21-Ahzab
The messenger of GOD has set up a good example for those among you who seek GOD and the Last Day, and constantly think about GOD.

And again we have in the Quran:
قل لا اسئلکم اجراً الا المودة فی القربی
23-Shora
"I ask not of you any wage for it but affection in respect of my kin".
So if you believe Quran is perfect(so do i!) we should follow the links it gives us.Quran is like a reference book.It gives us the basics the important parts the pillars of the house and he gives us the link for the details .It's like a tree having a trunk and branches and leaves. Quran is the trunk,Iman is the roots and the branches and the leaves are the Sunna. We need Prophet's way of Life don't we? Read the Verse again and see what is it saying.

For example in Qur’an Allah , the Almigty instructs to eat Halal meats . Now if we start arguing that Qur’an doesn’t mention how to chop them , how to cook them, how to spice them, how to eat them , what types dish and spoons do we use to manage them etc. will be just nothing but challenging the Wisdom of Allah as HE mentioned in the Qur’an .

Ahsant! That's another point.I totally agree with you.That's the problem I have with lots of people.They are making Islam too complicated and they just stop and ask stupid questions trying to find all their answers in hadith.Hadith ,I believe , is only needed when there is a traditional question. We want to do just as Quran has told us to do:

The messenger of GOD has set up a good example for those among you who seek GOD

while original Qur’an never mentioned any thing about the appearance of Mahdi .

Mahdi is not the goal. Prophet (PBUH),surely has talked about the end of the world and just before the Qhiyama and what will happen so we are just curious about what will happen! Believing that the goods will rule the world is not a myth my friend ,that's what i can say.

You expressed perfectly what you really wanted to say

Thank God for that I feared you will misunderstand me!

 

[Union]

Me 2 friend

I admit it again but i,m saying Prophet Mohammad(AS) as the messenger of Allah's message has lived among people for 63 years.In these years he perhaps had talked to people explained some traditions for them and had many situations that fit for us too. for example he went to a Mosque and saw two groups in it. one were Praying and one were talking and discussing about things.He said both of them are in the right way but those who are discussing things are better.SO now we have a good and better point here. You can say that's hadith and it is all a lie! But my friend we can't wipe All the Prophet's life and say he came,lived and died and da da "The end!".
...

There is nothing useful in Hadith . It is a human made literature field which doesn’t have any relation with Islam . Islam is a divinely granted religion authored by Allah , the Almighty . Qur’an is the divine revelation to explain laws and beliefs for human kind . Allah , the Almighty promised to protect the Qur’an from any distortion but not for Hadiths . That is why there are lots of corruptions present in the Hadith literature . Any human society wrote anything in the Hadith books what they wanted . Hence Hadiths are like any other normal History books , not more than that . Such a corrupted books can’t be source for even a simplest issue for a divinely ordained Islam .

Prophet Muhammad received the Qur’an from Almighty Allah over 23 years of his life and conveyed it to his contemporaries. Prophet’s house holds (Ali, Fatima, Hassan , Hussain) and his companions (Abu Bakar, Umar, Ibn Masud etc.) then transferred this Qur’an to the rest of the world . They didn’t know what is the meaning of Hadith nor did know what Sunna is . They only knew the Qur’an . That is why you can’t find a single hadith from any one of them . The enemies of Prophet invented them about 200-400 years latter their golden era .

If Hadith or Sunna was such important then how could be it possible to think that Prophet Muhammad didn’t leave any Hadiths for his Ummah ? Could Prophet be such a careless person ? Also how it could be possible for Ahle Bayat also not to leave a single Hadith for their Shia or same applied to more than one hundred thousand companions of the Prophet who didn’t left a single hadith for Ahle Sunnah wa Jamat ? Think about it , please . Qur’an also testified that Prophet Muhammad didn’t tell anything but the Qur’an to represent Islam :

[053:001] By the Star when it goes down,-
[053:002] Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
[053:003] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
[053:004] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
[053:005] He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
[053:006] Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);


[069:043] It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
[069:044] And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings,
[069:045] We would certainly have seized him by the right hand,
[069:046] Then We would certainly have cut off his aorta.
[069:047] And not one of you could have withheld Us from him.


There is no doubt Prophet Muhammad is the best example for human kind and it is obligatory for us to follow him . In the same time we also need to know that what he left for us that he followed himself . Is it Qur’an or Hadith ? No doubt , Prophet Muhammad left for us only Qur’an which is the only set of principles of his character and actions . We also has confirmation from the Qur’an that he followed the instructions of Qur’an and didn’t follow his own desires :


[006:050] Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of God, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?


[007:203] If thou bring them not a revelation, they say: "Why hast thou not got it together?" Say: "I but follow what is revealed to me from my Lord: this is (nothing but) lights from your Lord, and Guidance, and mercy, for any who have faith."


[010:015] But when Our Clear Signs are rehearsed unto them, those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, Say: "Bring us a reading other than this, or change this," Say: "It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it: I follow naught but what is revealed unto me: if I were to disobey my Lord, I should myself fear the penalty of a Great Day (to come)."

Therefore to follow the footsteps of the Prophet we must follow the Qur’an only because Prophet Muhammad himself followed the footsteps of the Qur’an .

 

[Ghostaka]

There is nothing useful in Hadith . It is a human made literature field which doesn’t have any relation with Islam . Islam is a divinely granted religion authored by Allah , the Almighty . Qur’an is the divine revelation to explain laws and beliefs for human kind . Allah , the Almighty promised to protect the Qur’an from any distortion but not for Hadiths . That is why there are lots of corruptions present in the Hadith literature . Any human society wrote anything in the Hadith books what they wanted . Hence Hadiths are like any other normal History books , not more than that . Such a corrupted books can’t be source for even a simplest issue for a divinely ordained Islam .

Assalamu Aleikum brother Union.

What's going on here?

The prophet (PBUH) himself said that he left us two things; which if followed would keep people aright. They are the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah of the prophet (PBUH). Sure there may be weak and strong hadith (especially ones that have been tampered with on the Internet by bigots) but I do not understand how you can niglect the ahadith.

Bother other-side was correct in saying that we believe that Isa (PBUH) would return. Not to add or subtract anything from Muhammad (PBUH)'s message but to rectify the Christians and kill the false Masih (al-Dajjal).

Please look at the following are article:
The Return of Jesus (part 1 of 5) - The Religion of Islam

Maybe I have misunderstood you.

Assalamu Aleikum.

 

[bluesunspire]

Salam,

my knowledge is very limited. i consider it offense to say something amongst you. May Allah forgive all of us.

There should not be any devision between muslim (shia, sunni, kadiani da da da etc), does quaran has said to be devide between Muslims? We all are one. Stop saying we are shia sunni or something else. You can live extremely well by not taking a luxury caviar,you can live well by only taking normal cheap food. Controversial issue will make you more susceptible to Shaitan loosing your iman, so be established on the main issues. Just read the Quaran, do it as Allah says and read the hadis know the interpretation from our Prophet (sa) use it also as Allah has said to pursue Rasul in Quaran. Why its necessary to point out finger and say that hadis is useless bcz its corrupted?
Please read Surah Bakarah 177 ayat.

From taken, Tirmizi 2nd chp, Our prophet Muhammad (sa) said:
Soon my ummat will devide in 73 groups, but only one group will get salvation and all the others are wrong Jahannami. Our prophet then asked by, ya Rasulallah (sa) who is that salvation group? he replied, those who follow the path on which me and my sahabies are established.

We have to believe in Muhammad (sa) properly as Allah says in Quaran. Believe in Muhammad (sa) means also believe in hadis. Collecting hadis ran during his lifetime after having Nabuath. So, if hadis was bad as a hearsay our Prophet definitely would have stopped it by any means by the help of Allah. Allah may forgive you for telling the word "CARELESS". As a matter of fact, Hadis is just a part that carry the evidential document what our Prophet said/done, so to follow and meet with requirement what Allah says in Quaran that we have to follow the Prophet (sa) said/done. We can not deny hadis.

Surah Anfal ayat 20
Surah Hasar Ayat 7
Surah Fath Ayat 8-9
Surah Araf Ayat 158
Surah Fath Ayat 13
Surah Nisa Ayat 136
Surah Hadid Ayat 28
Al Imran Ayat 32
Nisa Ayat 64 and 80
etc

Those do not believe in hadis: See
Surah Nisa 59. "those believers! if you believe in Allah and afterlife, then be obedient to Allah, Rasul and your Discipliner's, if you find difference of opinion/confusion about any matter then remember Allah and Rasul. This is better and best in explanation for solution".
See the word: Ruler/Governor/Discipliner/knowledgeable/Scholar.

Surah Munafikun 1: "Those Munafik when come to you and say, we swear that you are certainly the rasul of Allah. And Allah knows very well, definitely you are the rasul of Allah. And Allah swear that, this Munafik people are certainly liar".
etc

Hazrat Abu Horayra narrated, Prophet (sa) said, he/she who is obedient to me he/she is actually obedient to Allah. He/she who is disobedient to me, he/she is actually disobedient to Allah. And he/she who is obedient to the ruler i have appointed is actually obedient to me. And he/she who is disobedient to the ruler i have appointed is actually disobedient to me.(Bukhari-Muslim) (do you think this hadis is corrupted? it actually says the right thing, supports what Allah has said in Quaran). Read book like Muntakhab Hadis or the book used Tablig people. You will see it will give you good advice from our Prophet to be a better Muslim.

Sura Nisa ayat 80 who pursue Rasul he/she actually pursued Allah and who refused/neglected i have not sent you as a watcher upon them.
etc

Allah says in Quaran that we have to believe in our Prophet (sa), then whatever our Prophet (sa) said/done we will follow. How do u know how our Prophet (sa) used to live, what he said, what he did, what he interpreted from Quaran etc? There is no faithful strong evidence but the narration from our Prophet's (sa) beloved sahabies. The point is: the truthfulness of sahabi who just simply repeat the sentence taken from our prophet (although the actual words may not match from what our Prophet (sa) said, but the narration from the sahabies the meanings are same).
We know that there is a greater chance that a hearsay can change its original form time to time. but we should not put our point of view like this on sahabies who narrated hadis from our prophet. whatever mentioned in hadith has been corrected and weighted many times by sahabies and subsequently by religious scholers since then. Even Hazrat Abdul kadir Zilani (ra) followed hadis, if you read his book "Gunyatut Talibin". Since the death of our Prophet (sa), hadis has been categorized as Strong and Weak and some are considered as much weak that can not be relied. Now the hadis we get is very much correct and weighted (Allah knows well).

If hadis is wrong, because we can not trust hearsay from sahabi. then i think you will only follow Quaran (only following Quaran only will not meet the requirement that our belief in Muhammad sa is 100% proper and i am muttaqi) and automatically we will disobey ayat from Quaran. In Quaran sometimes an ayat is complex and sometimes its easy to properly get the meaning. an ayat can carry more than one meaning. When there is contradictions between 2 hadiths or / contradiction between Quaran and hadith or for our confusion.....the solution is .......MAZHAB........we will follow the interpretation and solution from the scholers time to time (See Surah Nahal-43). The original leader is Muhammad (sa) who interpreted Quaran, then sahabies who carried what Prophet (sa) had given to them, then as it follows downwards . Otherwise there is a greater chance that we will follow our instincts/whim and get lost eventually.

Allah says in Surah Nahal Ayat 43; "Before you i sent human with commandment, if you do not know any matter then ask someone knowledgeable".

Prophet (sa) says; you pursue me, your descendant will likewise pursue you: (Bukhari, Muslim) Who says Hadis is useless just a bunch of stories invented by corrupted people......have you seen how Allah gave Quaran to Muhammad (sa) through Jibrail (ay)??? So Muhammad (sa) did not invented it (nauzubillah!!!)?????.....Have you seen when ayat was coming and Muhammad and his sahabis memorized it? Now you say, you believe and have accepted the existence of Quaran, Muhammad and Everything necessary for being the right-follower. If you say that Hadis is useless then definitely after sometime you will say Quaran is also corrupted invented by Muhammad (sa) as like the other Hadis inventors (nauzubillah).

Surah Muhammad Ayat 25-26: those who drops out the truth after having the truth been revealed to them, Shaitan makes their work look beautiful and give them false hope.
etc
if we do not follow hadis, because its a hearsay and can not trust them....then we will not follow what our prophet said/done......we will contradict the ayat from Quaran.....oral acceptance that i believe in Muhammad (sa) is useless....we are not muslim any more. Christian believes in Allah, Bani-israil believes in Allah as well but they are not muslim. They do not believe in Quaran and Prophet (sa) so they are cursed. After Quaran has come the syllabus has changed.

Look this example: 1 then add 0= 10, add another 0= 100, add another 0= 1000, add another 0= 10000, again add another 0= 100000. Now simply erase the "1", what happens? ans is= 00000. That means nothing. This example carries a meaning.

Not only mine majority of the followers view are:

(1) every sahabi is reliable, muttaqi, righteous. they have always put islam and ummah first (noway selfish). there is no blind spot in them.

(2) all sahabies are beyond contradiction. criticise them and finding blind spot in them is very bad. Allah will also find blind spot in those who does that, and also chances of getting forgiveness for those people will be reduced.

(3) to love all sahabies and honour them is the characteristics of Ahal-e Sunnat Al Jamat.

(4)in those areas where there are criticism and contradiction among the sahabies..... we say that, they all were right. suppose, to clear the confusion, in terms of fight/ego whatever happens (Allah forgive me) between sahabies (if any)....then we can say that as a human being there might be error in any one of them.....but we will say their niyat (intention) was right. they did not make them criticized/contradictory not for their own selfishness but for the name of true islam and did with Ikhlas. So although (May Allah forgive me for this example) any one of them might be wrong, we will follow THEM. if we have doubts about others, we will be silent and also maintain neutral thought from our mind. Allah may forgive waswasa .

(4) We accept that, Allah is happy and satisfied with all sahabies. Especially Prophet Muhammad (sa) has narrated 10 names going to jannat/heaven:
Hazrat Abu Bakar Siddik (ra),
Hazrat Omar (ra),
Hazrat Usman Gani (ra),
Hazrat Ali (ra),
Hazrat Talha (ra),
Hazrat Zubaer (ra),
Hazrat Abdur Rahman Ibne Aaof (ra),
Hazrat Saadd Ibne Abi Oakkas (ra),
Hazrat Sayid Ibne Jaed (ra),
Hazrat Abu Ubayada Ibnul Zarrah (ra).
And apart from them, our Prophet Muhammad (sa) has said in different times occasions news of Jannat to different sahabies.

my suggestion to "Union" and everyone likewise are, please go to a knowledgeable religious person who has greater indepth knowledge in Quaran and hadis in your area and i hope he will clear all your question.

Salam

 

[Starsoul]

To Union,

It is rather strange that you do not believe in hadiths, the Quran itself says in Sura Baqara," that those who follow the Prophet, follow Me (Allah) and those who do not follow the Prophet, do not follow me ".

Do check it out yourself and also attend the lectures of some knowledgeable scholars, there is so much that is not described in the Quran, and that includes the context of the verses and the islamic struggle, it seems very ignorant of someone to denounce hadith altogether when you cant even explain the Quran completely without the help of hadith, ofcorse only Allah knows best what it means, but for human understanding , a human interpretation by the prophet is only found in the hadith literature, which had been taught to the prophet only.

 

[Starsoul]

...snip..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3752517.stm​

Now we come to my point, its obvious that when the Mahdi comes there will be plenty of people against him, but after this and when Isa brings the new egalitarian world, what will happen to most of the people. I'm assuming most won't be muslim, and if I have read the hadith correctly the 'new world' will exist for some time before the 'heavens fold'. So one can only assume three things 1.) Everyone on the planet who isn't muslim will be killed, (to my mind unlikely) 2.) with the establishment of an Islamic world, Dhimmi will have their way of life protected until they adopt Islam, as with the Al Yathrib model with the 'light' of Islam by the will of God entering the people's hearts 3.) The Muslims rise up conquering etc. (not exactly the quickest route to the cited 'egalitarian and peaceful' world). Thoughts? (on the specific hadith in particular dealing with the Mahdi and Isa, but on Abu Hamza also and this 'school' of thought!!!!)

I don't understand what is the relation of the topic with these links about this man?

1.) Everyone on the planet who isn't muslim will be killed, (to my mind unlikely)
> It isnt going to be a one day or a month's phenomenon, from what hadiths say, there will be a sequence of events played out which will take time to happen, so it isn't like, everyone who isn't a muslim will be killed, the name of the nation which has specifically been mentioned to be destroyed is named as yajuj Majuj in the Quran, Sura Kahf". And yajuj Majuj according to the hadith's indication comprise some groups of kaffar, infidels, and they have been indicated to have some characteristics which distinguish them.

There are many hadiths on the subject, this is a very vast topic, But since i do not have them with me in english, i would request someone else to present them.

2.) with the establishment of an Islamic world, Dhimmi will have their way of life protected until they adopt Islam, as with the Al Yathrib model with the 'light' of Islam by the will of God entering the people's hearts

If Allah wills.

3.) The Muslims rise up conquering etc. (not exactly the quickest route to the cited 'egalitarian and peaceful.


The conquer wont be in the war fashion that several countries have imposed upon the others these days, this war will be of defense and for the establishment of the truth infront of the whole world to decide which side is upon truth.

It will be the kind of conquer which will expose the reality of religions, God and the Prophet Jesus ( Eesa AS) And mind you, muslims will have no big arms/or any classy hot weapons to defend themselves with in this war, and this war will be faught by a very less number of people as apposed to the opposing army, and yet it will be won by muslims, because Allah will help them and the world will see, inshAllah.

And it is also in the hadith that the world will become so peaceful under the rule of Imam Mahdi and people will be so happy and prosperous, no-one will demand money and no one will be poor. Not just people, the animals and the whole environment will be so peaceful that even animals wont harm humans and live with peace among each other. InshAllah

This is all according to what has been said in the authentic hadiths, I'll try to get back to you with numbers , but im quite busy these days to access my book bank ( im sure everyone one is) but I'll try.

 

[bluesunspire]

Salam,
The main topic was different, at some point its has been a detachment from it. Some one do not believe in hadith, incur a responsibility for us to help this brother. Our Prophet (sa) has said many times abt coming Imam mahdi , Isha (a) coming as an ummat of Muhammad (sa) and the coming of Dazzal, Yazuz/ Mazuz, rising sun from west, Dabbatul-Ard etc Its very difficult to write down all together. Although i have them in a serial altogether. I will try to put those some day. Salam to all best wishes.