Islam = peace

[gnostic]

You keep saying that because of what these terrorists are doing, you see Islam as a violent religion.

I think I am not getting my message out clear enough. Let me tries to clarify.

To a non-Muslim, he is not seeing moderate Muslims doing enough to stamp out the hatred from Islamic extremists. It would seem that the terrorists have hijacked Islam from other Muslims, so that it would appear that Islam have been tainted by these terrorists, who used religion as much as their politics in their propaganda.

And this propaganda seemed to be working, because non-Muslims around the world view Islam with distrust. Non-Muslims are viewing that Islam as not a peaceful religion.

It is not just in Iraq, or Israel/the Palestinians or other part of the Middle East, where Muslims are involved in wars, guerilla warfare or just terrorism. In the events in Sudan, Kenya, Algeria, Egypt, the Russian province (sorry, I don't remember how to spell it), in Pakistan/India (in regarding to Kashmir), in Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia.

 

[Smoke]

Why use pictures of Satmar? I know many who have been personally insulted by Satmar rabbis. They tend to have little care for the non 'frum'.

The Satmar are certainly one of the more colorful Hasidic groups. We ought to have a thread on the Hasidim; they fascinate me.

 

[the truth only]

i'm not argueing the docterine of Islam...but rather the conduct of some of it's followers...which i see as 2 seperate issues.
as to not crucifying jews....

On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

if you are going to expose the crime you will find jewish allways guilty .
and Islam is allways respected all religions
and prophet Mohamed had agreed to eat launch with his jewish neighbor when he invited him

 

[AbuQuteiba]

or not :
Orthodox jews rallying for Israel

love this one...chabad supporting the soldiers in the recent war w/ Hizbullah in their "Mitzvah Tank" van!

nice try champion...just because some orthodox, no matter how vocal, are still waiting to be magically teleported to Eretz Yisrael by Moshiach does not mean that there aren't many many jews, especailly orthodox, who support Israel and her right to exist as a jewish state.

and btw...it is a very complex situation....if it were simple then the problem wouldn't exist...

but why am i defending Israel in this thread? i don't see what that has to do w/ topic at all.

again i restate my point that if non-muslims are to believe that islam is truely a religion of peace then, personally, i expect that muslims should condemn the actions of groups like Hamas and the docterine of hate that they teach, which is done under the banner of being faithful followers of Islam.

to not do so is IMO a diservice to the many positive things Islam has to teach and will ultimately reinforce the outside world's perception (regardless of it's accuracy) of Islam as a violent faith

Hehehe...Thank you for clarifying MY point jewscout. So there are "orthodox" Jews who DO NOT agree to this Jewish state, and there are "orthodox" Jews who do agree to the state of Israel. So in conlusion, I believe that because of the horrific and violent terrorist acts the state of Israel has approved, that all Jews who condemn the state of Israel are NOT terrorists (as the muslims who condemn the acts of killing the innocent are NOT terrorists), and those who approve the State of Israel, are terrorists (as the muslims who approve of the murder of innocent people). Thanks again Jewscout, for proving that humans are stupid, and that they should be the ones to take the blame, and not religion.

As Islam is a religion of violence, because muslims are not doing ENOUGH to fight these so called "muslim" terrorists, then so is Judaism a religion of violence, because Jews are not doing ENOUGH to stop the terrorist acts of their Jewish state Israel.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

I think I am not getting my message out clear enough. Let me tries to clarify.

To a non-Muslim, he is not seeing moderate Muslims doing enough to stamp out the hatred from Islamic extremists. It would seem that the terrorists have hijacked Islam from other Muslims, so that it would appear that Islam have been tainted by these terrorists, who used religion as much as their politics in their propaganda.

And this propaganda seemed to be working, because non-Muslims around the world view Islam with distrust. Non-Muslims are viewing that Islam as not a peaceful religion.

It is not just in Iraq, or Israel/the Palestinians or other part of the Middle East, where Muslims are involved in wars, guerilla warfare or just terrorism. In the events in Sudan, Kenya, Algeria, Egypt, the Russian province (sorry, I don't remember how to spell it), in Pakistan/India (in regarding to Kashmir), in Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia.

The non-mulim does not see enough because the media does not cover the ENOUGH many muslims are doing. As we do not see ENOUGH ANYBODY is doing to stop the terrorist acts of America or Israel. Please.

Use religion as much as politics? Again, very lazy. What religion are they using? When have they ever shown you how Islam justifies their acts? When do they ever use the Qur'an or correct hadeeth (with the CORRECT interpretation) to justify their acts?! They just say in the name of Islam, and in the name of Allah, and in the name of Muhammed. So whats all this religion they are using exactly?

Non-muslims who are viewing Islam with distrust and as violent, are not taking the time to go over Islam's scriptures correctly to find out the truth about Islam.

Ok, in that last paragraph, your prejudice is showing.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As Islam is a religion of violence, because muslims are not doing ENOUGH to fight these so called "muslim" terrorists, then so is Judaism a religion of violence, because Jews are not doing ENOUGH to stop the terrorist acts of their Jewish state Israel.

The Jewish state is not involved in terrorist attacks - there is no moral equivalence between the IDF and Hizbolluh/Hamas.

 

[jewscout]

Also, as long as the Israeli government is trageting the civilains in their homes, and killing the women and children in houses so jUADISM IS NOT A PEACFUL RELIGION.

This is an example of what one would assume when he pick some groups and hijack the whole religion for that. So pathetic.

israel's government is not claiming to be leading a Torah observant nation or a representative of Judaism (notice i said Judaism, not Jews).

Hamas claims to be a party of religious muslims, their Charter invokes the name of G-d and uses religious docterine as it's foundation.

i'm asking that those who follow the same docterine yet do not agree with, as you put it, "targeting civilians in their homes and killing the women and children in houses" (which they do), to stand up and say, "this is not Islam!"

my problem isn't Islam, The Truth, my problem is the deafening silence from the PEOPLE who claim to be followers of peace.

that this silence is continued by pretty much every muslim on this thread only continues to do a diservice to the message of peace Islam teaches.

is the best that can be mustered in retaliation to this is "well what about Israel?"
that's what's pathetic.

 

[jewscout]

Hehehe...Thank you for clarifying MY point jewscout.

then where are the pictures of muslims rallying against Hamas?

As Islam is a religion of violence, because muslims are not doing ENOUGH to fight these so called "muslim" terrorists, then so is Judaism a religion of violence, because Jews are not doing ENOUGH to stop the terrorist acts of their Jewish state Israel.

1. Israel's government doesn't claims to represent Judaism, Hamas is an islamic religious party...one's secular in nature (trust me you can walk the streets of Tel Aviv and see that)...one is religious

2. when was the last time Hamas handed out flyers warning of their next suicide bombing attack, where it would happen and when? comparing the IDF to Hamas/hezbullah is like comparing US military to the Gestapo

3. I do not consider Islam a religion of violence, however i find a great deal of hypocracy when muslims speak of it as a religion of peace yet i have to do everything short of begging to get anyone here to condemn actions which seem to fly in contradicition of the message of peace and coexistance that exists in Islam. What I am asking is for people to stand by the convicitions they claim to hold.

 

[jewscout]

if you are going to expose the crime you will find jewish allways guilty .

*sigh*

and Islam is allways respected all religions

what is in docterine and what is practiced by their followers, obviously, are 2 different things. I think that has been adequately demonstrated.

and prophet Mohamed had agreed to eat launch with his jewish neighbor when he invited him

so he came for a nosh i fail to see what that proves in regards to some muslims contradicting the message of peace which was insisted in the OP.

 

[TashaN]

The Jewish state is not involved in terrorist attacks

Ya, only terrorist crimes and massacred. :areyoucra

 

[TashaN]

i'm asking that those who follow the same docterine yet do not agree with, as you put it, "targeting civilians in their homes and killing the women and children in houses" (which they do), to stand up and say, "this is not Islam!"

You think that me or any muslim in this forum is supporting killing women and children?

It's you who always come forward and justify the Israeli act and when peopel ask why you support them, you claim that this is their opnion (the israelis) but not yours !!!

Who asked you to represent them, we just ask you to condemn the Israeli terrorist government which represent the jewish state (Israel) WHICH CAME IN THE FIRST PLACE TO PALESTINE BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT IN JUADISM, GOD ORDERED THEM TO DO SO, then you come here thinking we are stupid and we don't know that Israel existance is based in the very core of the juadism doctrine.

The U.N. Human Rights Commission
Indeed, it is far more serious than that. On 19 October 2000 a Special Session of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights adopted a Resolution set forth in U.N. Document E/CN.4/S-5/L.2/Rev. 1, "Condemning the provocative visit to Al-Haram Al-Sharif on 28 September 2000 by Ariel Sharon, the Likud party leader, which triggered the tragic events that followed in occupied East Jerusalem and the other occupied Palestinian territories, resulting in a high number of deaths and injuries among Palestinian civilians." The U.N. Human Rights Commission then said it was "[g]ravely concerned" about several different types of atrocities inflicted by Israel upon the Palestinian People, which it denominated "war crimes, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and crimes against humanity."​

In operative paragraph 1 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission then: "Strongly condemns the disproportionate and indiscriminate use of force in violation of international humanitarian law by the Israeli occupying Power against innocent and unarmed Palestinian civilians...including many children, in the occupied territories, which constitutes a war crime and a crime against humanity;..." And in paragraph 5 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission: "Also affirms that the deliberate and systematic killing of civilians and children by the Israeli occupying authorities constitutes a flagrant and grave violation of the right to life and also constitutes a crime against humanity;..." Article 68 of the United Nations Charter had expressly required the U.N.'s Economic and Social Council to "set up" this Commission "for the promotion of human rights."

http://www.mediamonitors.net/francis7.html

And now, why don't you condemn the Israeli government when they target civilians?​

my problem isn't Islam, The Truth, my problem is the deafening silence from the PEOPLE who claim to be followers of peace.

I'm a muslim. Do you think i'm supporting killing children and women. You are claiming in one hand that you have no problem with Islam then you come in the other way around to condemn all muslims for things they didn't do.​

that this silence is continued by pretty much every muslim on this thread only continues to do a diservice to the message of peace Islam teaches.

Here we go again in your generalization ....​

is the best that can be mustered in retaliation to this is "well what about Israel?"

that's what's pathetic.​

Just keep denying the crimes against humanity by Israel and just keep supporting them blindly just because they are Israelis, and the victims are just a bunch of arabs and muslims who don't deserve to live or they don't have the same value as jewish have, in your opnion.​

That's because when human rights condemn Israel for killing CHILDREN (not by mistake according to huamn rights), you will just say, oh, so sad, it was by mistake. :areyoucra

jewscout, those who have a house made of glass won't dare to throw people with stones.​

​

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

According to the Quran, those Muslims who actually participate in the fighting are said to be seen more favorably by God than those who sit at home. Whenever an admonishion is made not to kill, exceptions are made saying it's OK under various circumstances of actual or perceived wrongs commited against Muslims (as those in this thread are doing as well).

4.94 . O ye who believe! When ye go forth ( to fight ) in the way of Allah , be careful to discriminate , and say not unto one who offereth you peace : "Thou are not a believer ; " seeking the chance profits of this life ( so that ye may despoil him ) . With Allah are plenteous spoils . Even thus ( as he now is ) were ye before ; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you . Therefore take care to discriminate . Allah is ever informed of what ye do .
4.95 . Those of the believers who sit still , other than those who have a ( disabling ) hurt , are not on an equality with those who strive in the way of Allah with their wealth and lives . Allah hath conferred on those who strive with their wealth and lives a rank above the sedentary . Unto each Allah hath promised good , but He hath bestowed on those who strive a great reward above the sedentary ;
4.96 . Degrees of rank from Him , and forgiveness and mercy . Allah is ever Forgiving , Merciful .
​

I'm not asking you to justify anything. All I'm asking for is that you acknowledge what your religion actually teaches.
But since you mentioned it and challenged me to read up on it for myself (which I was doing anyway) - it looks to me like maybe they're not so deviant after all.....

Over and over and over the Quran and the Hadith say that those believers (of Islam) who fight, strive, slay, kill for the cause of Allah and Islam are the ones who will be blessed the most. Even more so if they are killed (as in 'martyred') in the process of doing so.

8.72 . Lo! those who believed and left their homes and strove with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah , and those who took them in and helped them ; these are protecting friends one of another . And those who believed but did not leave their homes , ye have no duty to protect them till they leave their homes ; but if they seek help from you in the matter of religion then it is your duty to help ( them ) except against a folk between whom and you there is a treaty . Allah is Seer of what ye do .
8.73 . And those who disbelieve are protectors one of another If ye do not so , there will be confusion in the land , and great corruption .
8.74 . Those who believed and left their homes and strove for the cause of Allah , and those who took them in and helped them these are the believers in truth . For them is pardon , and a bountiful provision .[FONT=&quot]8.75 . And those who afterwards believed and left their homes and strove along with you , they are of you ; and those who are akin are nearer one to another in the ordinance of Allah . Lo! Allah is Knower of all things .[/FONT]
​

In Sunna 9, Muhammed claims a wrong against Muslims (non-Muslims who have the audacity to actually think they are equal in status to Muslims). Then declares the treaties will be annulled at the end of the holy months. Why? So his offensive attack on those people will be 'legal.' He tells his troops that these dispicable people will be fought and killed until they either convert to Islam or submit to Islam rule and consent to pay the jizyah with submission and humiliaion (as in are 'brought low'). If they do choose to submit, it is so they can be convinced to convert.

9.3 . And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters , and ( so is ) His messenger . So , if ye repent , it will be better for you ; but if ye are averse , then know that ye cannot escape Allah . Give tidings ( O Muhammad ) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve .
9.4 . Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye ( Muslims ) have a treaty , and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you . ( As for these ) , fulfill their treaty to them till their term . Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty ( unto Him ) .
9.5 . Then , when the sacred months have passed , slay the idolaters wherever ye find them , and take them ( captive ) , and besiege them , and prepare for them each ambush . But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due , then leave their way free . Lo! Allah is Forgiving , Merciful .
9.6 . And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection ( O Muhammad ) , then protect him so that he may hear the word of Allah ; and afterward convey him to his place of safety . That is because they are a folk who know not .
[FONT=&quot]9.7 . How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you , be true to them . Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty [/FONT]
​

Muhammed is praises those who support him and ‘strive hard’ for the jihad cause. He harshly admonishes those who are less than enthusiastic and lag behind or who are less supportive or generous in their donations to the cause and calls them hypocrites, declares them disbelievers...

[FONT=&quot]9.73 . O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites ! Be harsh with them . Their ultimate abode is hell , a hapless journey ' s end .[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9.74 . They swear by Allah that they said nothing ( wrong ) , yet they did say the word of disbelief , and did disbelieve after their Surrender ( to Allah ) . And they purposed that which they could not attain , and they sought revenge only that Allah by His messenger should enrich them of His bounty . If they repent it will be better for them ; and if they turn away , Allah will afflict them with a painful doom in the world and the Hereafter , and they have no protecting friend nor helper in the earth
[/FONT]​

Indeed – those who joined the jihad to kill or be killed were promised Paradise:

9.111 . Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain . It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Quran . Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made , for that is the supreme triumph .
​

And those he declared to be unbelievers:

9.122 . And the believers should not all go out to fight . Of every troop of them , a party only should go forth , that they ( who are left behind ) may gain sound knowledge in religion , and that they may warn their folk when they return to them , so that they may beware .
​

It is the believers God-given duty to kill the unbelievers!!

9.123 . O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you , and let them find harshness in you , and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty ( unto Him ) .

​

Where is the tafsir of the ayat. Stop picking out single verses that support what you say according to your limited understanding of Islam. Read Suran Hajj. verse 39 -42. YOU DO NOT KNOW THE REASON FOR REVELATION. So you do as everyone else does you read the Translated version of the Quran and understand it by just what is there. Do you know who Allah is talking about or what were the events surrounding the verse. Get the Tafsir. READ IT. Why were these verses revealed. What did the people of Mecca do to Him and the Muslims. What are the characteristics of a disbeliever. Are you a disbeliever. Do you do the things Quraish did to him to people you know. IF YOU DID YOU WOULD BE IN JAIL OR GIVEN CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. I understand where you are coming from. But your information is incomplete. LEARN THE REASON FOR REVELATION FOR YOU UNDERSTANDING IS WAY OFF. Islam is a religion set up on a system of justice and peace. There are rules in everything we do including Jihad. Why do you not have the rules of Jihad in place. There are limits. None of which you have mentioned. There is an etiquette. What did the Messenger do. AGAIN READ THE TAFSIR. Remember the Quran did not come down all at once. Each verses explanation is according to the reason of the revelation. So learn that before you make anymore silly claims. You show me where Muhammed wasn't justified in his actions against Quraish. Do you even know what they did to him. It is obvious you do not. If you want give me a list and I will give you the tafsir. Just list them Number and verse. you do not have to write them all out. If you sincerely want to know the reason I will help you but if not then you will as everyone else make claims unjustly for you do not have the proper knowledge and it is not your fault. You are not muslim so it is not important. And you probably get your information from a partially reliable source. If I do not know my teacher does. This is him watch the video Arees Institute

I am ready to teach you if you are ready to learn the truth about Islam.
-peace

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

then where are the pictures of muslims rallying against Hamas?

There are many but you do not know them if they are not in the major news pubs.

1. Israel's government doesn't claims to represent Judaism, Hamas is an islamic religious party...one's secular in nature (trust me you can walk the streets of Tel Aviv and see that)...one is religious

Of course they do but People can make claims that they are doing it "religiously" but are they transgressing the limits set up by the religion. If so is it really what they claim.

2. when was the last time Hamas handed out flyers warning of their next suicide bombing attack, where it would happen and when? comparing the IDF to Hamas/hezbullah is like comparing US military to the Gestapo

Who cares suicide is forbidden in Islam. Stike one against them. When was the last time Israel sent out flyers to the Palestinians that they will drop bombs on them. Or bulldoze their houses while they are still in them.

3. I do not consider Islam a religion of violence, however i find a great deal of hypocracy when muslims speak of it as a religion of peace yet i have to do everything short of begging to get anyone here to condemn actions which seem to fly in contradicition of the message of peace and coexistance that exists in Islam. What I am asking is for people to stand by the convicitions they claim to hold.

what are you talking about EVERY "TRUE" MUSLIM HERE IS AGAINST IT. The ones who are hypocrites are the ones doing things in the name of our religion. And what steps have you personally took to stop the ILLEGAL occupation of Palestine Lebanon and many others. What do you want exactly for me or any of us just to say we are against what they do. for starters I trust nothing the media says they lie about almost everything. (98.5%) so if what they say is true about these groups and their actions taken against civilians then yes there is nothing in Islam that will justify their actions. So I am against it. However I do understand their plight. Palestinians have been going through oppression for fifty years. Over 1,000,000 Iraqqis have died because of sanctions put on them by U.S, Israel and its Allies. 3/4 of them children. Both of us Jews and Muslims need to stop looking at one side and look at it in hole. Is the Israeli goverment wrong in their tactics. Absolulely are the rebellious Muslims wrong in their actions in terms of the relgion if what is said is true then yes. The values of a muslim and a jew are the same. We want to worship god, take care of our families, and uphold justice and peace. But are the world leaders who do these things under the label of relgion doing this. NO WAY. There are crimes being commited on humanity now I do not want to say look at the number and see who is getting the worse end of it because it should be obvious. But two wrongs do not make a right. We need to remove the veil that our biased media who is owned by all the same people put in our minds as to this is what is going on. But the responsibility lies mainly on the leaders what are they doing. And are they justified in their actions. 9/11 happens sanctions on Iraq a country not even involved supposedly in the plot 750,000 children dead is America justified. 2 Jewish soldiers captured 1000's of civilians not including some UN troops are killed are the Zionists justified. How is that justice. What happen to eye for an eye. But as you and I have said no one is doing what the religion asks.


It is funny but we are all right in this issue. For it is very complex and requires special attention and analysis.

 

[shema]

http://www.iheu.org/node/1304

 

[jewscout]

jewscout, those who have a house made of glass won't dare to throw people with stones.​

hmmm that's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black

you talk about overgeneralization, yet it appears to me that there is this underlying belief that the root of all this is JUDAISM, in your opinion. We jews and our crazy little Torah are to blame for this problem because we believe G-d told us to do this.

When israel does something i don't agree with, i say so. but i will not condemn military actions in response to terrorism. No sane person would expect a country to allow rockets and suicide bombers to come in and try to kill their civilians without some sort of response. In the very beginning Israel's founders called to the Arab world out of friendship and a desire for mutual cooperation.

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighboring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighborliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.
​

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/israel.htm

they were met w/ a war of annihilation.

I'm a muslim. Do you think i'm supporting killing children and women. You are claiming in one hand that you have no problem with Islam then you come in the other way around to condemn all muslims for things they didn't do.

I am asked to justify the actions of Israel all the time! When israel does something the local papers call my Rabbi, Why?

Why am i persistant on this. I'll tell you exactly why. Because i am of the firm personal opinion that if groups like Hamas stopped what they were doing, stopped the actions and violence against israel, completely...then the IDF would have no reason to do anything against the Palestinian people. The fighting would stop!

if peaceful, non-violent means of protest were adopted by these groups and the IDF was still systematically targeting and killing civilians then i would stand shoulder to shoulder with you and protest this.

But these groups kidnap and murder civilians, fire rockets into israel, and send suicide bombers to bus stations and you tell me i should protest IDF responses to this? What sense does that make???

speaking of deafening silence, where are the UN sanctions against these terrorist groups who willfully target civilians? Where are the great resolutions demanding an end to their violence?
​

 

[Booko]

Why am i persistant on this. I'll tell you exactly why. Because i am of the firm personal opinion that if groups like Hamas stopped what they were doing, stopped the actions and violence against israel, completely...then the IDF would have no reason to do anything against the Palestinian people. The fighting would stop!

if peaceful, non-violent means of protest were adopted by these groups and the IDF was still systematically targeting and killing civilians then i would stand shoulder to shoulder with you and protest this.​

​

Oh, the fighting would definately stop, Jewscout. Firstly, I doubt Israeli citizens would be willing to go along with such a clear case of agression.

And second, the US voting public would demand our gov't pull the funds we send to Israel, if we saw a situation where the Palestinians were being nonviolent and were being slaughtered anyway.

Palestinian "leaders" have made a very serious miscalulation here. Whenever they want the violence to stop, this is exactly how you cut off the funds, which will make it stop.

It's a shame they couldn't have taken a page from Ghandi's playbook, but I guess they're working from a different history and set of traditions.

It would still work now, but it would take a lot longer, because people here would need to be convinced that nonviolence was actually happening and it wasn't some sort of temporary ruse while there was a buildup for some bigger violence.

 

[TashaN]

http://www.iheu.org/node/1304

I guess this link was meant to be posted in another thread, because we are talking about Islam in here but not about Pakistan.

 

[jewscout]

I guess this link was meant to be posted in another thread, because we are talking about Islam in here but not about Pakistan.

and yet for some reason we are talking about Israel

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Why am i persistant on this. I'll tell you exactly why. Because i am of the firm personal opinion that if groups like Hamas stopped what they were doing, stopped the actions and violence against israel, completely...then the IDF would have no reason to do anything against the Palestinian people. The fighting would stop!

What the....?? I believe that organizations like Hamas started becuase of Israel, and their acts. Would stop?? Now, you're just talking crazy. The state of Israel has done enough damage to the people of Palestine in a way that this war can almost never stop. What are you talking about? They have driven thousands of people out of their homes, and taken over land that was'nt their's to begin with! I find it hard for terrorism in Palestine to begin with what Israel has done, and keeps doing. Hell, i think they're just fighting fire with fire.

Oh yeah, and jewscout, you wanted somebody to get up and say "this is not Islam", well here it goe's "THIS IS NOT ISLAM!!!". Happy now?

 

[jewscout]

What the....?? I believe that organizations like Hamas started becuase of Israel, and their acts. Would stop?? Now, you're just talking crazy. The state of Israel has done enough damage to the people of Palestine in a way that this war can almost never stop. What are you talking about? They have driven thousands of people out of their homes, and taken over land that was'nt their's to begin with! I find it hard for terrorism in Palestine to begin with what Israel has done, and keeps doing. Hell, i think they're just fighting fire with fire.

well since neither side has actually stopped fighting there's no way of determining who's opinions are right or wrong on this point, is there? but, again, there have been about 1000 threads on the evils of israel and Israelis and i have no doubt 1000 more will emerge before i leave in December. So these old arguements can wait for another day.

Oh yeah, and jewscout, you wanted somebody to get up and say "this is not Islam", well here it goe's "THIS IS NOT ISLAM!!!". Happy now?

very...was that so hard?