Islam and Women : The Head Scarf

[Cypress]

The United States has the world's highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics.

that publish such statistics
That is exactly the point: In the West statistical information is published on web and in the press, accessible to everyone.
Might I respectfully ask you to direct me to (a) source(s) of statistical information about rape, abuse and incest in predominant Muslim countries?

 

[beenie]

that publish such statistics
That is exactly the point: In the West statistical information is published on web and in the press, accessible to everyone.
Might I respectfully ask you to direct me to (a) source(s) of statistical information about rape, abuse and incest in predominant Muslim countries?

fyi, I don't fall into the argument comparing the rapes, incest, etc., between the US and Muslim countries; I'm sure the stats ate horrific on both sides.

the argument that rape has anything to do with wearing or not wearing a headscarf is ridiculous. someone who wants to control and hurt won't let a piece of cloth stop them, nor will the absence of the scarf incline them towards it.

 

[Cypress]

the argument that rape has anything to do with wearing or not wearing a headscarf is ridiculous. someone who wants to control and hurt won't let a piece of cloth stop them, nor will the absence of the scarf incline them towards it.

You are right. :clap
Rape has to do with demonstration of power & superiority and not with satisfaction of sexual needs.

 

[gnostic]

fyi, I don't fall into the argument comparing the rapes, incest, etc., between the US and Muslim countries; I'm sure the stats ate horrific on both sides.

Yes they are, on both counts - that they happen both in the West and in Muslim countries, and they are horrific regardless where they happen.

the argument that rape has anything to do with wearing or not wearing a headscarf is ridiculous. someone who wants to control and hurt won't let a piece of cloth stop them, nor will the absence of the scarf incline them towards it.

Also very true.

Wearing something or anything to cover a woman's head, would not prevent a rape. It is no protection whatsoever. That's what some Muslims don't understand.

My other problem is that it is extremely stupid for family, government, community or religion that are punishing women for not wearing ones, or they wear ones, but it does cover enough. Iran is a perfect example of extreme misogynistic policies towards women. When I heard last year (or the year before) that the so-called fashion-police are arresting young women who wore head-scarves that don't cover enough of their head or deem the scarves to be "too fashionable". I was completely astonished of the claims.

It simply make no sense in legislating law that punish women for what they wear. It is highly unlikely you will see Muslim women wearing bikini in public, but what they wear on their head seem tad extreme.

 

[Bismillah]

Iran is a perfect example of extreme misogynistic policies towards women. When I heard last year (or the year before) that the so-called fashion-police are arresting young women who wore head-scarves that don't cover enough of their head or deem the scarves to be "too fashionable". I was completely astonished of the claims.

For the record the also arrested men with haircuts deemed to "Western".

 

[gnostic]

For the record the also arrested men with haircuts deemed to "Western".

Really? You not kidding me, are you?

I haven't heard of this...until now. It is ridiculous. It look like Iranian style of political correctness gone overboard.

What on earth are they going to do next? :cover:

 

[Bismillah]

Nope I'm not kidding Iran government issues style guide for men's hair - Telegraph

I believe it's an attempt to marginalize the youth and coerce them into the hardliner religious dogma of the current regime. The politicians know that the youth is becoming increasingly tired of isolation and living between to extremes and are trying to crack down on dissidence. This now extends to haircuts. More of a political move than a religious one.

 

[gnostic]

I believe it's an attempt to marginalize the youth and coerce them into the hardliner religious dogma of the current regime. The politicians know that the youth is becoming increasingly tired of isolation and living between to extremes and are trying to crack down on dissidence. This now extends to haircuts. More of a political move than a religious one.

It may be a political move, but Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has powerful backing from senior Iranian clerics and scholars, who are quite happy with Ahmadinejad's insane hardline policies.

 

[blackout]

A cute head of unruly hair might get a young guy raped. :yes:

And with due cause!

 

[Autodidact]

For the record the also arrested men with haircuts deemed to "Western".

Oh well in that case it's just fine.

 

[hyacinthus]

you know what..i am not that fond of religion, which is another way of saying that i hate it, on the other hand i hate immorality. We need a system that values both knowledge and morality.. a kind of system that can produce geniuses like Newton, Descartes and Pascal..all of whom died virgin...

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

you know what..i am not that fond of religion, which is another way of saying that i hate it

May I ask you why you're here then? This is a religious EDUCATION forum not a "tell me why you hate religion" one.

Or maybe you're just here to tell us how religious people are dumb and how reasonable and intellectual you are as a scientist? If so , then be aware since many people like that got banned from here.

Best wishes and regards

 

[Autodidact]

May I ask you why you're here then? This is a religious EDUCATION forum not a "tell me why you hate religion" one.

Or maybe you're just here to tell us how religious people are dumb and how reasonable and intellectual you are as a scientist? If so , then be aware since many people like that got banned from here.

Best wishes and regards

I'll just take a wild guess that he's here to engage in the forum's purpose, which is to debate religion.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

that publish such statistics
That is exactly the point: In the West statistical information is published on web and in the press, accessible to everyone.
Might I respectfully ask you to direct me to (a) source(s) of statistical information about rape, abuse and incest in predominant Muslim countries?

I might say that at the very least, we are making our mistakes transparent for everyone to see.

I obviously would like to see the statistic change here in the U.S., but the answer lies in having greater accountability in men rather than covering up women as the answer.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Admittedly, I have not kept up with the last few pages of posts on this thread. However I feel the need to interject here that the hijab is not meant to stop crimes from happening. Rapes, abuses, molestations, and other such actions are crimes. They are punishable within a penal system. When we speak of hijab and the relationship between men and women, we speak of consensual adult relationships. This is what the hijab represents and is to be practiced by both male and female. Men must make sure to cover their own "awrah" or what you may think of as the parts of the body to be covered in public as part of decency. Technically it is from the navel to the knees of men. However according to the sunnah of the Prophet (saw), he is to wear long loose clothing as well. Mens clothing should not be sheer, tight, short or anything like that.

So basically men also have a dress code even though it may not be quite as strict, but it's there. When we are out and about in public, and there is to be coincidental mingling between the sexes, hijab both as a dress code and a code of conduct is to be employed. The dress is a visual reminder to both parties that casual intermingling that can lead to all the things involved with dating, are not permissible. We can interact when it's necessary. On the job, going to the store, taking care of your daily business is all permissible to do. We just can't get involved with each other by freely mixing the way it has become acceptable in most societies.

I guess some of the posts here by Muslims brought up the issues of rape and so on. Hijab is not about crimes. Islam has a penal system that can be used to punish and attempt to prevent such crimes from happening.

 

[gnostic]

The reality is quite different, today.

The legal requirements in the Qur'an are not as clear Muslims think, because a large amount of interpretations are used. The law being implemented may be thought to protect the women, but instead cross over the line of oppressing the women, when it begin to punish women for what they wear or don't wear on their heads.

I agreed that the decision to wear the hijab should lay with the woman's decision. I don't deny that and I won't deny a woman's choice.

My problem is when a family, community, religion, law or government decide to punish a woman who choose not to wear it, or wear one but one of the above ridiculously deem it to be too short or doesn't cover enough.

If you think it is only the Iranian president and his government, then you are wrong...well you're only partially right. Many of the Islamic clerics who advise the president are demanding restrictions to be in place, and punishing those young women who either don't wear ones or don't wear the right ones.

The Iranian president, government and clerics are saying that they are doing for the women's protection, but it is not - it is all about power and control over these Iranian women. Another example is the Talibans, where women were being flogged for not covering their whole heads.

What is really sickening with these countries is that when a rape do occur, they don't look at what the rapist have done, but what a woman was wearing at that time, as if any head-scarf or veil would stop a rape, and then punishing the woman instead of the rapist. Whether this is Islamic law or not, Islam will and have suffer because of the oppressive nature of the law.

The questions therefore is what REALLY DO THE QUR'AN say about covering head or face?

And is there anything in the Qur'an say that a woman who don't wear one should be punished? And if it doesn't say anything about punishing women, then where is it coming from?

 

[beenie]

The reality is quite different, today.

The legal requirements in the Qur'an are not as clear Muslims think, because a large amount of interpretations are used. The law being implemented may be thought to protect the women, but instead cross over the line of oppressing the women, when it begin to punish women for what they wear or don't wear on their heads.

I agreed that the decision to wear the hijab should lay with the woman's decision. I don't deny that and I won't deny a woman's choice.

My problem is when a family, community, religion, law or government decide to punish a woman who choose not to wear it, or wear one but one of the above ridiculously deem it to be too short or doesn't cover enough.

If you think it is only the Iranian president and his government, then you are wrong...well you're only partially right. Many of the Islamic clerics who advise the president are demanding restrictions to be in place, and punishing those young women who either don't wear ones or don't wear the right ones.

The Iranian president, government and clerics are saying that they are doing for the women's protection, but it is not - it is all about power and control over these Iranian women. Another example is the Talibans, where women were being flogged for not covering their whole heads.

What is really sickening with these countries is that when a rape do occur, they don't look at what the rapist have done, but what a woman was wearing at that time, as if any head-scarf or veil would stop a rape, and then punishing the woman instead of the rapist. Whether this is Islamic law or not, Islam will and have suffer because of the oppressive nature of the law.

The questions therefore is what REALLY DO THE QUR'AN say about covering head or face?

And is there anything in the Qur'an say that a woman who don't wear one should be punished? And if it doesn't say anything about punishing women, then where is it coming from?

:clap this sums it up so well. the fact is that there is no ordained punishment for not wearing a headscarf. the "religious police" is an invention by society, not by God. you're spot on when you say that wearing the headscarf is and always SHOULD BE the woman's choice and no other.

where all this judging, forcing, punishing comes from is a mystery to me.

here's the thing: every person on this planet who follows a religion struggles with some aspect of it (whether it's a ritual, spritual, etc. action)...we all struggle. the problem i have with the scarf issue is that because it's so visible, everyone feels they have a right to judge that woman because she struggles with this. for all we know, when a Muslim is doing his/her required prayer, they're muttering utter nonsense or not praying at all...it's NOT visible to the outside world, so people don't judge it the same way. how is this just and defendable? because it's visible it's more important? who are these women wearing the scarf for? Allah. so shut up and leave them alone. if they want your advice or counsel, they'll ask for it. sorry, but i'm just so sick and tired of women's dress code being the center of attention of our religion. fix yourself first; when you do that correctly, you'll realize that it's not your place to correct others who are struggling or simply choose not to wear a scarf.

it's not fair and it needs to stop. for God's sake, being a Muslim woman is hard enough without our own people making a big deal out of a headcovering. grow up and MOVE ON.

/rant

 

[Looncall]

The reality is quite different, today.

The legal requirements in the Qur'an are not as clear Muslims think, because a large amount of interpretations are used. The law being implemented may be thought to protect the women, but instead cross over the line of oppressing the women, when it begin to punish women for what they wear or don't wear on their heads.

I agreed that the decision to wear the hijab should lay with the woman's decision. I don't deny that and I won't deny a woman's choice.

My problem is when a family, community, religion, law or government decide to punish a woman who choose not to wear it, or wear one but one of the above ridiculously deem it to be too short or doesn't cover enough.

If you think it is only the Iranian president and his government, then you are wrong...well you're only partially right. Many of the Islamic clerics who advise the president are demanding restrictions to be in place, and punishing those young women who either don't wear ones or don't wear the right ones.

The Iranian president, government and clerics are saying that they are doing for the women's protection, but it is not - it is all about power and control over these Iranian women. Another example is the Talibans, where women were being flogged for not covering their whole heads.

What is really sickening with these countries is that when a rape do occur, they don't look at what the rapist have done, but what a woman was wearing at that time, as if any head-scarf or veil would stop a rape, and then punishing the woman instead of the rapist. Whether this is Islamic law or not, Islam will and have suffer because of the oppressive nature of the law.

The questions therefore is what REALLY DO THE QUR'AN say about covering head or face?

And is there anything in the Qur'an say that a woman who don't wear one should be punished? And if it doesn't say anything about punishing women, then where is it coming from?

The covering thing seems to me to be about regarding women as property.

For some reason, muslim societies work that way. The more enthusiastically muslim the society, the worse is the lot of women in it. Whether islam is attractive to such societies, or is the cause of this, I cannot tell.

If you keep your woman unattractive (or invisible) to other men, no-one will steal your woman.

If you keep your daughter unattractive (or invisible) to other men, you can keep her until you can trade her off in marriage.

 

[Madhuri]

I don't have a problem with the idea of wearing something to cover the hair, in fact sometimes it is very beautiful (ie the head veils on saris).

What I feel critical about is all this focus on men, their lust, their needs etc. When does a women really get some consideration? I'll be honest, I find a man with hair way more attractive than a bold man. I find the sight of a handsome face to be very sexually appealing and insights lust. Why shouldn't men wear veils? Why shouldn't they cover their face? Or is it ok for a woman to be lustful and impure? That seems a bit sexist.

 

[Starsoul]

The reality is quite different, today.....


And is there anything in the Qur'an say that a woman who don't wear one should be punished? And if it doesn't say anything about punishing women, then where is it coming from?

Just to briefly answer, No. Just like there's no punishment for lying,(unless a witness to a crime lies, and is caught for that) backbiting, staring, and showing extreme anger and etc. Although all these acts have been described to be extremely binding upon Muslims to avoid, for their dire consequences are to be dealt with in the afterlife, i do not yet know of a ruling placed on them.

(I could be wrong, But since most of these acts, get accounted for in one's life in normal observation, I have seen many people taste the bitterness of their own medicine, and have Always seen that what goes around ,comes around, so things not named as punishable by the Shariah, usually are handled by the Nature's rule of 'paying for your own dues through your own sins'.)

Never heard of a punishment for not covering your head, and never saw anyone EVEN suggesting for such a thing. The places it is said to be practiced at do so probably because of the view of some of the people who feel that its discrimination among women if some get to exhibit their beauty and the rest do not. I'm not sure how far applicable that discrimination is, but we'll find out.