ISIS as Salafī, or why this label is accurate

[sooda]

Or for writing "the wrong kind" of poetry. Or sharing "the wrong" opinions.

And it's not "tough".
It's rather things like: brutal, barbaric, inhuman, cruel, disgusting, despicable, shocking, evil,...

You get most of your information from Middle East Eye?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You get most of your information from Middle East Eye?

I don't even know what that is.

I get my information from a wide variety of sources, and I do my best to filter the bs and sensation and tabloids out of it.
Including the wife of my cousin, who's an arab girl who escaped saudi arabia, fearing for her life.

 

[dybmh]

And now i am reviewing multiple articles returned via the google search: "how are islamic terrorists radicalized".

Key Points:

• Islamic Terrorist Recruiters are/behave like criminals
• Radicalized Islamic Terrorists tend to be suicidal before radicalization
• Radicalized Islamic Terrorists tend to live in a "spiritual vacuum" and are disconnected from Islamic resources

Sources:

“Jihad and Death: The Global Appeal of Islamic State," Olivier Roy, one of France’s top experts on Islamic terrorism
"The Danger of Prison Radicalization in the West", James Brandon, Counter Terrorism Center at West Point

hyperlink >>> haaretz.com - It's not Islam that drives young Europeans to jihad

hyperlink >>> ctc.usma.edu - the-danger-of-prison-radicalization-in-the-west/

 

[sooda]

I don't even know what that is.

I get my information from a wide variety of sources, and I do my best to filter the bs and sensation and tabloids out of it.
Including the wife of my cousin, who's an arab girl who escaped saudi arabia, fearing for her life.

Middle East Eye is strictly a propaganda site.

You say she escaped.. How exactly did she do that?

 

[Komori]

Middle East Eye is strictly a propaganda site.

Simply because what they publish tends to go against your pro-Saudi narrative? Why are you, as a Christian, so intent on defending Wahhabist nutjobs?

 

[sooda]

Simply because what they publish tends to go against your pro-Saudi narrative? Why are you, as a Christian, so intent on defending Wahhabist nutjobs?

Spent a lot of time around them.. They are the good guys in the ME... Most of the Gulf States are. They want peace.. They aren't nationalistic or aggressive.

 

[Komori]

They are the good guys in the ME

Anyone who believes such a thing has firmly buried their head in the sand. Try telling that to the families of all the Shi'ah they've executed.

 

[sooda]

Anyone who believes such a thing has firmly buried their head in the sand. Try telling that to the families of all the Shi'ah they've executed.

The Shia in Arabia are pretty successful. The SAG has poured a lot of money into education and infrastructure in the Eastern province for the past 40-50 years. Shia are strong in the oil business and make up a sizable portion of the Merchant class. Iran wants them to flip out and rebel.. I hope they don't.

 

[Komori]

The Shia in Arabia are pretty successful. The SAG has poured a lot of money into education and infrastructure in the Eastern province for the past 40-50 years. Shia are strong in the oil business and make up a sizable portion of the Merchant class. Iran wants them to flip out and rebel.. I hope they don't.

Typical genocide denier arguments.

 

[sooda]

Typical genocide denier arguments.

There is no Shia genocide in Arabia.. They work and live side by side.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Middle East Eye is strictly a propaganda site.

Never heared of it.
I try hard to stay clear of mere propaganda.

You say she escaped.. How exactly did she do that?

I understand why you would ask that question. It is well known that it's extremely hard for women to escape from that extremely woman-unfriendly repressive regime. Most don't make it.

She's originally from Somalia. She got "married off" (or "sold", might be a better word) to some saudi dude many years older then her. She had 2 sisters, one of which died rather brutally while she was in KSA. She managed, after lots of begging, to convince her "husband" (or "master", might be a better word) to go to Somalia to visit her family.

There, at the first opportunity they had in the middle of the night, she and her sister ran away. They met up with a friend of her sister who drove them accross the border. From there, they managed to enter Europe. She used the passport of her dead sister, because she was afraid that saudi's would be able to track the use of her own passport.

With the help of humanitarian organizations, she managed to get asylum in Belgium. Her sister eventually ended up in Sweden.

This was little over 10 years ago. She still uses her dead sister's name.
She is still afraid.

She also has no contact whatsoever with her parents in Somalia. She blames them deeply for everything she had to go through. She considers herself an orphan and doesn't even want to just let them now that she is alive and well.

As far as she is concerned, they are dead to her. And she has no problem playing dead to them.

Can't say I blame her.
We, and she also off course, are all very happy that she found a new family with us.


She was kind of lucky though. If Somalia wouldn't have been the chaotic mess that it was, that plan would have never succeeded.

 

[Wasp]

Ibn Tamiyyah believed in the permissibility of killing Druze, Alawites,

Where did he say so? In what circumstances did he supposedly allow it?

There can be no doubt that the words and deeds of ISIS’ members justify the declaration that they are non-Muslims.

There definitely is doubt if you actually mean to say all the members are non-Muslims instead of saying that the ideology of ISIS is unislamic. Labelling all members of one group like that is just plain wrong. You would be making a certainty out of an assumption.

 

[sooda]

Never heared of it.
I try hard to stay clear of mere propaganda.



I understand why you would ask that question. It is well known that it's extremely hard for women to escape from that extremely woman-unfriendly repressive regime. Most don't make it.

She's originally from Somalia. She got "married off" (or "sold", might be a better word) to some saudi dude many years older then her. She had 2 sisters, one of which died rather brutally while she was in KSA. She managed, after lots of begging, to convince her "husband" (or "master", might be a better word) to go to Somalia to visit her family.

There, at the first opportunity they had in the middle of the night, she and her sister ran away. They met up with a friend of her sister who drove them accross the border. From there, they managed to enter Europe. She used the passport of her dead sister, because she was afraid that saudi's would be able to track the use of her own passport.

With the help of humanitarian organizations, she managed to get asylum in Belgium. Her sister eventually ended up in Sweden.

This was little over 10 years ago. She still uses her dead sister's name.
She is still afraid.

She also has no contact whatsoever with her parents in Somalia. She blames them deeply for everything she had to go through. She considers herself an orphan and doesn't even want to just let them now that she is alive and well.

As far as she is concerned, they are dead to her. And she has no problem playing dead to them.

Can't say I blame her.
We, and she also off course, are all very happy that she found a new family with us.


She was kind of lucky though. If Somalia wouldn't have been the chaotic mess that it was, that plan would have never succeeded.

Somalia isn't Salafi.. Where do you come up with this crap?

 

[Ellen Brown]

Where did he say so? In what circumstances did he supposedly allow it?

There definitely is doubt if you actually mean to say all the members are non-Muslims instead of saying that the ideology of ISIS is unislamic. Labelling all members of one group like that is just plain wrong. You would be making a certainty out of an assumption.

They do not pray, and do not have Qurans. Not Muslim.

 

[Wasp]

They do not pray, and do not have Qurans. Not Muslim.

ISIS members pray. I don't see a reason to assume they don't have Qur'ans. It isn't a requirement though. If a person stops praying for years at a time - they're still Muslim if they haven't renounced Islam.

 

[Ellen Brown]

ISIS members pray. I don't see a reason to assume they don't have Qur'ans. It isn't a requirement though. If a person stops praying for years at a time - they're still Muslim if they haven't renounced Islam.

And you would know this how? You are of the Deen?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Somalia isn't Salafi..

I never said it was. I was just answering YOUR question about how my cousin's wife escaped Saudi Arabia.

Where do you come up with this crap?

"crap"?

I'm sure she'll find that pleasant to hear, that you think her story (which, remember: YOU ASKED FOR) is "crap".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

They do not pray, and do not have Qurans. Not Muslim.

Did you just say that ISIS peeps don't have qurans and don't pray?

Are you being serious? Surely you're not.... It's quite obviously false.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And you would know this how? You are of the Deen?

You know, the "no true scotsman" fallacy, is a really poor way to argue.

 

[Wasp]

And you would know this how? You are of the Deen?

Yes. Witnesses have talked a lot about ISIS members praying and a Muslim not becoming a non-Muslim by not praying is a pretty general consensus, or do you not think so? Nevertheless, it is forbitten to call a Muslim a non-Muslim if they don't give an explicit reason to do so, and the assumption that someone doesn't fulfill their religious obligations as well as the assumption that they have committed major sins does not justify regarding them as non-Muslims.

I take issue with this line of thinking. It is true, at least from what I have read, that many ISIS fighters are "religious novices" and consider themselves as having a 'weak' knowledge of the sharīʿah.

​

This, however, isn't that extraordinary.

​

And this kind of analysis leads us into this odd, almost Marxist methodology of completely ignoring the possible religious motivations of people who join ISIS. Some simply do not consider the very real possibility that many of these people, although they may be far from experts in Islamic law, have studied the Qurʾān, the ahadith, and the rulings of the scholars and have come on their own terms to the (albeit incorrect) conclusion that ISIS is upon the straight path.

Then they can't by definition be Salafis. In order for one to be a salafi they must know the way of the salaf.