Ishmael (Nation "Muslims") and Israel (Nation "Jews")

[Godobeyer]

Don't you think its a bit strange that you never read the Bible even in an English (or Arabic) translation, but you are willing to believe what an internet website tells you about it? not even that, but the internet tells you things that somehow the Jews, who study and read the Bible for centuries on regular basis don't know about?
Don't you find it just a bit unreliable?

accuatly as i told you i read (OT ), some of it , in the first page , "which God said ,let's be the light , he saw that the light is good !!!! " or" which said that God get relax from his work in the seven day !! " or " when God don't know where is Adam in heaven!!!"
i get so laugh about these verses ,because it's confirme to me that the Bible is correpted by human being .

for the link of Google translator :
i believe in Allah , which said that the name of Muhammad (pbuh) found in the Bible
, and Mr Deedat before more than 20 years ago , agrue with christians or jews about this issue , and now google translator translator that word at exaclty as Deedat said .

 

[Caladan]

accuatly as i told you i read (OT ), some of it , in the first page , "which God said ,let's be the light , he saw that the light is good !!!! " or" which said that God get relax from his work in the seven day !! " or " when God don't know where is Adam in heaven!!!"
i get so laugh about these verses ,because it's confirme to me that the Bible is correpted by human being .

'Some of it' as only a verse from the first page of the Bible? and where did you read it?

for the link of Google translator :
i believe in Allah , which said that the name of Muhammad (pbuh) found in the Bible
, and Mr Deedat before more than 20 years ago , agrue with christians or jews about this issue , and now google translator translator that word at exaclty as Deedat said .

Deetat is wrong on so many levels. but by all means, believe what you wish.

 

[Caladan]

I don't have Hebrew Bible , it's just verses of it from Hebrew bible sites "in english" , i read it .

accuatly as i told you i read (OT ), some of it , in the first page , "which God said ,let's be the light , he saw that the light is good !!!! " or" which said that God get relax from his work in the seven day !! " or " when God don't know where is Adam in heaven!!!"
i get so laugh about these verses ,because it's confirme to me that the Bible is correpted by human being .

So, which is it? did you only read what an internet website told you?

 

[Tyler Durne]

because God told us in the Quran, that name of Muhammad (pbuh) found in the Bible .

I reply for simular questions , Bible is not human made , it's edited by human , that what God said in the Quran said .
yes it's corrupted , and that's why it's contain false contexts , and contradicts .

Actually this is were your argument ends, according to the Jewish tradition Moses wrote the Torah. So is the Quran lying when it says Bible is not human made? If the Quran is a continuation of Torah and Bible shouldn't the Quran at least say that people wrote it to validate its point?

Otherwise your argument is worthless.

 

[Tyler Durne]

i am not talking about the translation of Google , i am talking about it's transcription , because when it fail in translation , it's write the transcription instead of the translation, did you get the point now ?

Are you aware of the fact that Hebrew an Arabic are sister languages that are very similar? so if somewhere it mentions a word similar to muhamad it might have a direct meaning of the word rather then a prophesy?

By the way, King Solomons writings are not part of the Torah, they are part of the Tanakh. King Solomon leaved way after Moses. So the Quran is wrong again when it says it is prophesied in the Torah.

 

[Tyler Durne]

accuatly as i told you i read (OT ), some of it , in the first page , "which God said ,let's be the light , he saw that the light is good !!!! " or" which said that God get relax from his work in the seven day !! " or " when God don't know where is Adam in heaven!!!"
i get so laugh about these verses ,because it's confirme to me that the Bible is correpted by human being .
.

:areyoucra No wonder the the Arab world takes words as eye for an eye literally.

 

[Godobeyer]

Are you aware of the fact that Hebrew an Arabic are sister languages that are very similar? so if somewhere it mentions a word similar to muhamad it might have a direct meaning of the word rather then a prophesy?

the Arabic and Hebrew and even Aramaic are sisters langauge (semitics ) , they share many words in spelling , and they have some share regulers .
in transcription :there is different between them .

By the way, King Solomons writings are not part of the Torah, they are part of the Tanakh. King Solomon leaved way after Moses. So the Quran is wrong again when it says it is prophesied in the Torah.

it's doest important , where the word Muhammad (pbuh) found in the Bible , or it's make sense in the sentence , because we believe that the Torah is corrupeted by human.

 

[Godobeyer]

So, which is it? did you only read what an internet website told you?

why these verses did not exist in the OT ?
i thought is the Torah is the OT , no ?

is important to read all the Torah ?
and Talmud to debat them ?

i don't know if you read the all Quran and all Hadiths , but you are always criticing the view of Islam .

 

[Caladan]

why these verses did not exist in the OT ?
i thought is the Torah is the OT , no ?

is important to read all the Torah ?
and Talmud to debat them ?

Sorry is this an answer to my question. if it is I fail to understand it. do you have the Bible and did you read in it, or does your information comes from internet websites you take at face value?

i don't know if you read the all Quran and all Hadiths , but you are always criticing the view of Islam .

I have read the Qur'an, all of it. several times. in two languages actually. and trust me if it werent for your posts, I would have no motivation to dig up this criticism of mine.

 

[Godobeyer]

Sorry is this an answer to my question. if it is I fail to understand it. do you have the Bible and did you read in it, or does your information comes from internet websites you take at face value?

i read pages from it , not all .
from the first page , as i told you i find out that it's correpted , because as i see the Bible minimize Allah , which mean it's make him as joke sometimes .
that what Quran clearly deny . (as you said "i read Quran many times " , i bit that you notice that )

I have read the Qur'an, all of it. several times. in two languages actually. and trust me if it werent for your posts, I would have no motivation to dig up this criticism of mine.

Good
did you read it in Arabic ?
doesnt mean that will make you muslim , many arabs are not muslims (in egypt and lebanon ) but because the value of the meaning of the Quran is high in it's original languege , which make certain that this is not Book created by human , in the desert before 1433 years ago .

 

[Godobeyer]

Btw Mr Caladan
as i told you read a pages , especialy the first page , when i read it , i get convince that the Bible edited by human (because of the concept of minimize the God ) , should i verify the rest of the Book ?

 

[Caladan]

i read pages from it , not all .
from the first page , as i told you i find out that it's correpted , because as i see the Bible minimize Allah , which mean it's make him as joke sometimes .
that what Quran clearly deny . (as you said "i read Quran many times " , i bit that you notice that )

So you have a Bible? which parts of it did you read?

Good
did you read it in Arabic ?
doesnt mean that will make you muslim , many arabs are not muslims (in egypt and lebanon ) but because the value of the meaning of the Quran is high in it's original languege , which make certain that this is not Book created by human , in the desert before 1433 years ago .

Do you read the Bible in Hebrew? because you seem to have definite opinions about the Bible in THE HEBREW VERSION.
If you wish, you may tell yourself that the Qur'an was not written by mortal men. I personally don't believe that.

 

[Godobeyer]

So you have a Bible? which parts of it did you read?

i have a software bible in Arabic and english i read some of it .
especialy the OT , the first pages , that i told you before .

Do you read the Bible in Hebrew? because you seem to have definite opinions about the Bible in THE HEBREW VERSION.

I don't read it in hebrew , because i don't know hebrew , the scholars whom know hebrew as Mr Deedat , whom explain and show the word Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible .

If you wish, you may tell yourself that the Qur'an was not written by mortal men. I personally don't believe that.

this part had no sense .
do'nt tell me that whom writen and edit your Bible are still alive

let me ask you this question : did you believe that the Bible of Hebrew is came from God ?

 

[Caladan]

i have a software bible in Arabic and english i read some of it .
especialy the OT , the first pages , that i told you before .


I don't read it in hebrew , because i don't know hebrew , the scholars whom know hebrew as Mr Deedat , whom explain and show the word Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible .

I'll take this post of yours as an understanding about your Biblical insight:

I don't have Hebrew Bible , it's just verses of it from Hebrew bible sites "in english" , i read it .

furthermore as a Hebrew reader of the Bible, I would not call Deedat's analysis scholarly. in fact it goes against what scholarship means in the developed world.

this part had no sense .
do'nt tell me that whom writen and edit your Bible are still alive

let me ask you this question : did you believe that the Bible of Hebrew is came from God ?

You seem to be confused. my post said that you are free to believe that the Qur'an was not created by humans. personally, it doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[JacobEzra.]

So GodOberyer, may I read the Quran in arabic and tell you what the words "truly" mean? And then accuse muslims of a conspiracy to hide something?


It seems conspiracies of scribes and scholars hiding things from Jewish laymen is very common accusation.

 

[Rakhel]

So GodOberyer, may I read the Quran in arabic and tell you what the words "truly" mean? And then accuse muslims of a conspiracy to hide something?


It seems conspiracies of scribes and scholars hiding things from Jewish laymen is very common accusation.

Nah. Just google it.

 

[gnostic]

First of all i am a Muslim so don't feel offended but the full video of that interview is actually against Islam someone just copied and pasted the 4:47 minutes. There are many real Rabbi's who actually studied the Ancient Manuscripts and came to the conclusion that Islam is the way forward and that the deceants of Ishmael(p) indeed were blessed as mentioned in the bible, also many jews conclude that Islam teaches pure monotheism and there are even connections in there scriptures that Muslim/Musliemyte came from Noah(p) himself.

Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

Genesis 21:8-20

8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.” 11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”
14 Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the Desert of Beersheba.
15 When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 Then she went off and sat down about a bowshot away, for she thought, “I cannot watch the boy die.” And as she sat there, she began to sob.
17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, “What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”
19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.
20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

I feel that Mr Fouad make religious scandel here ?
you know that we are the great nation and you don't tell us ?

You should read the Bible, godobeyer. And you should read it properly too.

There are several flaws to the Muslims' way of thinking.

Nothing in Genesis 17 or 21 suggest that the covenant or promise to Hagar (not to Ishmael) had anything to do with Muhammad or to Muslims.

Did you read the 12 rulers there in 17:20?

Take the 12 rulers in the proper context, and read Genesis 25:

13 These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, 14 Mishma, Dumah, Massa, 15 Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. 16 These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps.

The 12 rulers have to do with the 12 tribes from Ishmael's 12 sons. Absolutely nothing to do with Muhammad or the empires that followed Muhammad's death. And the covenant had nothing to with Muslims or that of Islam itself.

Nothing in this covenant (in Genesis 17 or 21) say that Ishmael's descendant would start a new religion.

You are reading too much into these verses from Genesis, and making connection where there are not. You can't see the whole forest because of the trees.

Secondly, there's nothing to say Ishmael really existed. Or that Muhammad come from Ishmael's lineage. People have faked genealogical origin, and I am not surprise that Muhammad would resort to this tactic.

 

[Godobeyer]

So GodOberyer, may I read the Quran in arabic and tell you what the words "truly" mean? And then accuse muslims of a conspiracy to hide something?

Quran is Arabic , the translations are just explaination of Quran not Quran .

It seems conspiracies of scribes and scholars hiding things from Jewish laymen is very common accusation

the jews are hiding , but my best site (Google tranlations) which help us to discover what hiding

 

[Godobeyer]

You should read the Bible, godobeyer. And you should read it properly too.

There are several flaws to the Muslims' way of thinking.

I read some of it , escpecialy the 3 first pages , i found out that it's just mock/minimize of GOD , why should i continous to read whole Bible ?
when i arrived to the convince that it's corrupeted by human .

Nothing in Genesis 17 or 21 suggest that the covenant or promise to Hagar (not to Ishmael) had anything to do with Muhammad or to Muslims.

your cliam is simply wrong .

God promise to Ishmeal and Hajar that God will make his nation , great nation .

Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

 

[Caladan]

I read some of it , escpecialy the 3 first pages , i found out that it's just mock/minimize of GOD , why should i continous to read whole Bible ?
when i arrived to the convince that it's corrupeted by human .

Let me get this straight. you read the first 3 pages of the Bible (heh I even have doubts about that) and reached the conclusion that the text is corrupted (whatever that means). you completely disregard reading the rest of the Bible, but you blindly believe when a Muslim 'scholar' tells you the same book talks about the coming of Muhammad?
so which is it. is the text corrupted or not?

There are so many wrong things with this, I can't even describe it.
At least some of us who have a strong opinion of various passages in the Qur'an took the time and had the integrity to read all of it. so we would at least know what it is about, and what we are saying.