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Isaiah 53:2.

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
metalparapet said:
And if you are taught to misread it, as every Christian does, then you make mistaken assumptions. Especially when you read it in translation, and not in the original. I wasn't "taught to read it as a Jew". I simply read the text. Neither Jesus, nor messiah, or what a messiah is [which Christians always misinterpret] is mentioned.

Deutero-Isaiah (the latter chapters of the prophet) are pretty much all messianic to one degree or other. A more theologically important questions concerns the difference between Messiah as an individual Jew, versus Israel as a messianic people? Israel is unquestioningly a messianic people with a profound messianic mission. So distinguishing between Israel as a messianic people, and Messiah as an individual Jew is a meaningful endeavor when exegeting Deutero-Isaiah.



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Deutero-Isaiah (the latter chapters of the prophet) are pretty much all messianic to one degree or other. A more theologically important questions concerns the difference between Messiah as an individual Jew, versus Israel as a messianic people? Israel is unquestioningly a messianic people with a profound messianic mission. So distinguishing between Israel as a messianic people, and Messiah as an individual Jew is a meaningful endeavor when exegeting Deutero-Isaiah.

Because of it's preternatural symmetry with the Christian Gospels, modern Jews have tried to imply that Isaiah 53 isn't messianic. . . How can it be messianic when it speaks of a suffering, dying, atoning-sacrifice sort of messiah, who fits too nicely with that bloody Christianizing fella in the first century?

The Rabbis said: His [Messiah's] name is 'the leper scholar,' as it is written, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God, and afflicted.​

BT Sanhedrin 98b.
We have it on no less authority than the Babylonian Talmud that Isaiah 53 is a picture of Messiah. Midrash Rabbah (Ruth) concurs:

The fifth interpretation [of Ruth 2:14] makes it refer to the Messiah. Come hither: approach to royal state. And eat of the BREAD refers to the bread of royalty; AND DIP THY MORSEL IN THE VINEGAR refers to his sufferings, as it is said, But he was wounded because of our transgressions. (Isa. LIII, 5).​

Likewise we have it on the authority of Maimonides, Nachmanides, and the Zohar (to name but a few), all of which are based on the oldest traditions, that Isaiah 53 is speaking of Messiah. -----I like what the Zohar says in Daniel Matt's very recent interpretation of Va-Yaqhel, 2:21a:

"In the Garden of Eden there is one chamber called the Chamber of the Ill. The Messiah then enters that chamber and calls for all the illnesses, all the pains, and all the sufferings of Israel to come upon him, and they all do so. And if he did not ease them off of Israel, taking them upon himself, no one could endure the suffering of Israel from the punishments of Torah, as is written: Yet it was our sickness that he was bearing, [our pains that he endured] (Isaiah 53:4)."
Once it's conceded that Isaiah 53 is messianic, and it seems like an unbiased exegete can't help but acknowledge the context of the chapter ---nestled as it is among messianic passages ---- then it becomes an extremely meaningful task to look at the symbols used in that important chapter both to hide, and reveal, the identity of Messiah.


John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the [messianic] arm of the Lord revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground.
Isaiah 53:1-2.
I don't think anyone would assume it's taking any exegetical liberties to say that the passage above is stating fairly candidly that Messiah will grow up before the Lord as "a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground." -----But what's the prophetic inference associated with "a tender plant," and a "root out of dry ground"?

The question is particularly important since the prophet links the "tender plant," and the "root out of dry ground" directly to the question concerning to whom Messiah will be revealed thus implying that Messiah will be revealed to him for whom the analogy of a "tender plant" and a "root out of dry ground" makes sense.

The word translated "tender plant" יונק (yoneq) is said, in numerous lexicons, to include Gesenius, and the Dictionary of Biblical Languages, to speak of a plant "sucker."

You are probably thinking, “What is a plant sucker?” Essentially, a plant sucker is an effort by the tree to grow more branches, especially if the tree is under stress. But you have taken perfect care of your plant and it wasn’t under any stress. Besides, that does not explain why your tree has suddenly switched varieties. Chances are, your tree is actually two trees spliced or grafted together. With many ornamental or fruiting trees, the desirable tree, for instance a key lime, is grafted onto the rootstock of an inferior but hardier related variety. The top of the tree is perfectly happy, but the lower half of the tree is under a certain amount of stress and biologically will try to reproduce itself. It does this by growing suckers from the root or lower stem. Tree suckers can also grow on non-grafted trees, but are most common on grafted ones. This explains what is a plant sucker.​





John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
"Suckers" typically grow out of "rootstock":

A rootstock is part of a plant, often an underground part, from which new above-ground growth can be produced. It can refer to a rhizome or underground stem.[1] In grafting, it refers to a plant, sometimes just a stump, which already has an established, healthy root system, onto which a cutting or a bud from another plant is grafted. . .The plant part grafted onto the rootstock is usually called the scion. The scion is the plant that has the properties that propagator desires above ground, including the photosynthetic activity and the fruit or decorative properties. The rootstock is selected for its interaction with the soil, providing the roots and the stem to support the new plant, obtaining the necessary soil water and minerals, and resisting the relevant pests and diseases. After a few weeks the tissues of the two parts will have grown together, eventually forming a single plant. After some years it may be difficult to detect the site of the graft although the product always contains the components of two genetically different plants.

Wikipedia, Rootstock.
But what does all this agricultural nonsense have to do with the identity of Messiah? What possible connection could there be between Messiah, and a "sucker"? What connection could there be between Messiah, and "rootstock"?



John
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Did you actually read Isaiah 53+ all the way through until the end of the book? At the end amd at some points prior to that it talks about the necessity of following the Law-- the entire Law-- and that certainly is not what Christians did or do.
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Did you actually read Isaiah 53+ all the way through until the end of the book? At the end amd at some points prior to that it talks about the necessity of following the Law-- the entire Law-- and that certainly is not what Christians did or do.

Wouldn't you say how well we read Isaiah is as important as how much and often we read him? . . . I've not commented on anything but verse 53:2 as of yet. And even at that I've not got to the primary point of the verse yet.



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member

A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse, from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him . . ..

Isaiah 11:1.
The Dictionary of Biblical Languages says this about the word translated "shoot" (Heb. חטר hoter):

shoot, twig, i.e., new growth sprouting from a root-stock stump, as a figurative extension for a progeny from a particular lineage.​

And on the word translated "stump" of Jesse (Heb. גזע geza) it says:

root-stock, stump, i.e., the part of a cut-off tree or plant in the dirt, from which new stock will grow (Job 14:8+); 2. LN 3.47–3.59 shoot sprouting from a root-stock stump (Isa 40:24+); 3. LN 13.104–13.163 source, formally, root-stock, i.e., the figurative extension of a person as a genealogical source, implying a renewal or resumption of a dynastic reign (Isa 11:1+).​

Finally, on the "Branch" (Heb. נצר neser) that grows out of the "stump" (Heb. גזע geza) of Jesse:

shoot, scion, i.e., the shoot, slip, or twig for planting, which may rise from root-stock or a stump, implying a plant of the same kind of the next generation (Isa 11:1; 60:21+); 3. LN 10.14–10.48 unit: נֵצֶר שֹׁרֶשׁ (nē·ṣěr šō·rěš) family line, formally, a shoot from the root, i.e., persons of successive generations related by birth (Da 11:7+).​



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse, from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him . . ..

Isaiah 11:1.
The Dictionary of Biblical Languages says this about the word translated "shoot" (Heb. חטר hoter):

shoot, twig, i.e., new growth sprouting from a root-stock stump, as a figurative extension for a progeny from a particular lineage.​

And on the word translated "stump" of Jesse (Heb. גזע geza) it says:

root-stock, stump, i.e., the part of a cut-off tree or plant in the dirt, from which new stock will grow (Job 14:8+); 2. LN 3.47–3.59 shoot sprouting from a root-stock stump (Isa 40:24+); 3. LN 13.104–13.163 source, formally, root-stock, i.e., the figurative extension of a person as a genealogical source, implying a renewal or resumption of a dynastic reign (Isa 11:1+).​

Finally, on the "Branch" (Heb. נצר neser) that grows out of the "stump" (Heb. גזע geza) of Jesse:

shoot, scion, i.e., the shoot, slip, or twig for planting, which may rise from root-stock or a stump, implying a plant of the same kind of the next generation (Isa 11:1; 60:21+); 3. LN 10.14–10.48 unit: נֵצֶר שֹׁרֶשׁ (nē·ṣěr šō·rěš) family line, formally, a shoot from the root, i.e., persons of successive generations related by birth (Da 11:7+).​



John

Isaiah 11:1's "shoot" and "branch" growing out of the stump of Jesse (a precursor to the tender plant and root out of dry ground in 53:2) is what's called a basal shoot:

Basal shoots, root sprouts, adventitious shoots, water sprouts and suckers are various types of shoots which grow from a bud at the base of a tree or shrub or from adventitious buds in its roots . . . This is a phenomenon of natural asexual spread, also known in plants as vegetative reproduction. It is a plant propagation strategy and the complex of individuals formed by a mother plant and all its clones produced form a single genetic individual, a genet. The plant suckers are clones from the mother plant. The plant will have a genome identical to that from which it arose.

Wikipedia: Basal Shoot.
Messiah is a clone produced from asexual vegetative reproduction. The "root" he sprouts from, as a "sucker," is the body of Adam prior to the grafting of the phallus and testes (Gen. 2:21) onto that perfect body. Adam's pre-Fall body is used as the "rootstock" that supports the fruit of the human race produced through the sexual reproduction associated with the flesh grafted onto Adam's original body.

Adam's pre-Fall body (his non-phallic body prior to Gen. 2:21) is the rootstock into which the phallic-flesh and subsequent sexually produced human race arises.

But as is the case in botany, when a particular crisis, or stress factor is introduced to the organism grafted onto the rootstock, a "sucker" or "basal shoot" can suddenly appear, without the natural sexual fertilization and propagation, out of the "stump" of the organism produced through grafting into the original rootstock.

Jesus of Nazareth is a "sucker." As is everyone who believes in him. They're both, all, what's known as a "genet": organisms that are genetically identical. They're discrete parts of one genetically homogeneous Body.

Until the arrival of the "sucker" Jesus of Nazareth, and the suckers who are branches from the original basal shoot, the grafted nature of the sinful human race was unknown. It wasn't until the asexual appearance of Jesus of Nazareth that the human race was made aware of the fact that every single man and woman born of phallic-sex are in fact products not of Adam's original body, but a tree of knowledge grafted onto the rootstock of Adam's body therein hiding the nature of the crime that is the original production of phallic-sex, from a formerly asexual rootstock, leading to the Fall of mankind, the rising of the evil inclination, death, disease, and all the things the arrival of Messiah will bring to an end.



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Isaiah 11:1's "shoot" and "branch" growing out of the stump of Jesse (a precursor to the tender plant and root out of dry ground in 53:2) is what's called a basal shoot:

Basal shoots, root sprouts, adventitious shoots, water sprouts and suckers are various types of shoots which grow from a bud at the base of a tree or shrub or from adventitious buds in its roots . . . This is a phenomenon of natural asexual spread, also known in plants as vegetative reproduction. It is a plant propagation strategy and the complex of individuals formed by a mother plant and all its clones produced form a single genetic individual, a genet. The plant suckers are clones from the mother plant. The plant will have a genome identical to that from which it arose.

Wikipedia: Basal Shoot.
Messiah is a clone produced from asexual vegetative reproduction. The "root" he sprouts from, as a "sucker," is the body of Adam prior to the grafting of the phallus and testes (Gen. 2:21) onto that perfect body. Adam's pre-Fall body is used as the "rootstock" that supports the fruit of the human race produced through the sexual reproduction associated with the flesh grafted onto Adam's original body.

Adam's pre-Fall body (his non-phallic body prior to Gen. 2:21) is the rootstock into which the phallic-flesh and subsequent sexually produced human race arises.

But as is the case in botany, when a particular crisis, or stress factor is introduced to the organism grafted onto the rootstock, a "sucker" or "basal shoot" can suddenly appear, without the natural sexual fertilization and propagation, out of the "stump" of the organism produced through grafting into the original rootstock.

Jesus of Nazareth is a "sucker." As is everyone who believes in him. They're both, all, what's known as a "genet": organisms that are genetically identical. They're discrete parts of one genetically homogeneous Body.

Until the arrival of the "sucker" Jesus of Nazareth, and the suckers who are branches from the original basal shoot, the grafted nature of the sinful human race was unknown. It wasn't until the asexual appearance of Jesus of Nazareth that the human race was made aware of the fact that every single man and woman born of phallic-sex are in fact products not of Adam's original body, but a tree of knowledge grafted onto the rootstock of Adam's body therein hiding the nature of the crime that is the original production of phallic-sex, from a formerly asexual rootstock, leading to the Fall of mankind, the rising of the evil inclination, death, disease, and all the things the arrival of Messiah will bring to an end.



John

If not for Adam's sin, all mankind would have had the status of Israel. . . To some degree, circumcision restored Abraham and his descendants to the status of Adam before his sin.

Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, Handbook of Jewish Thought, p. 39, 47.
The phallus is the "tree of knowledge" grafted onto a formerly perfect human body (that was non-gendered). The grafting of the phallus onto the rootstock of the Tree of Life (Adam's perfect body) created the desecration that led to the Fall of mankind.

Ritual emasculation, circumcision, pictures, ritually, a return to the original rootstock that is the non-genital, non-gendered, human body.

Therefore, as stated by Rabbi Kaplan, circumcision emblematically returns the Jewish body to the state of humanity prior to the desecration that is the grafting of the phallus (the tree of knowledge, and thus death) onto the perfect rootstock of the Tree of Life: Adam's pre-desecration (pre-Gen. 2:21) body.

Since the desecration of Adam's body was hidden in the text of the Torah, it wasn't until a "shoot" or a "tender plant" grew out of the very stump of the human race apart from sexual propagation that there was any inkling that a desecration took place in Genesis 2:21.

The fact of the asexual arrival of a Jewish male who had to open the womb of the stump of the human race (the female body) apart from the services of the phallic tree or its seed allowed Jewish sages to make sense of all the agricultural metaphors strewn throughout the messianic passages of Isaiah.

Isaiah chapter 11 and 53 alone point out that the death, sin, and suffering associated with the desecration of the human genome through the advent of the phallus, the tree of knowledge, will be undone with the arrival of the Messiah who will be a "sucker" or "basal shoot" growing miraculously (asexually) out of the stump of Jesse, a Jewish maiden, in the line of Jesse.


John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
If not for Adam's sin, all mankind would have had the status of Israel. . . To some degree, circumcision restored Abraham and his descendants to the status of Adam before his sin.

Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, Handbook of Jewish Thought, p. 39, 47.
The phallus is the "tree of knowledge" grafted onto a formerly perfect human body (that was non-gendered). The grafting of the phallus onto the rootstock of the Tree of Life (Adam's perfect body) created the desecration that led to the Fall of mankind.

Ritual emasculation, circumcision, pictures, ritually, a return to the original rootstock that is the non-genital, non-gendered, human body.

Therefore, as stated by Rabbi Kaplan, circumcision emblematically returns the Jewish body to the state of humanity prior to the desecration that is the grafting of the phallus (the tree of knowledge, and thus death) onto the perfect rootstock of the Tree of Life: Adam's pre-desecration (pre-Gen. 2:21) body.

Since the desecration of Adam's body was hidden in the text of the Torah, it wasn't until a "shoot" or a "tender plant" grew out of the very stump of the human race apart from sexual propagation that there was any inkling that a desecration took place in Genesis 2:21.

The fact of the asexual arrival of a Jewish male who had to open the womb of the stump of the human race (the female body) apart from the services of the phallic tree or its seed allowed Jewish sages to make sense of all the agricultural metaphors strewn throughout the messianic passages of Isaiah.

Isaiah chapter 11 and 53 alone point out that the death, sin, and suffering associated with the desecration of the human genome through the advent of the phallus, the tree of knowledge, will be undone with the arrival of the Messiah who will be a "sucker" or "basal shoot" growing miraculously (asexually) out of the stump of Jesse, a Jewish maiden, in the line of Jesse.


John

In a very general Judeo/Christian sense, Messiah is the man who undoes what Adam did when he first sinned in a manner that brought about the expulsion from Eden (where there was no death, disease, or want). In this general sense, Messiah is a sort of second Adam, who, rather than sinning in a manner that causes the evil inclination, and death, and disease, instead reverses the very act or sin that brought these menaces upon the human race.

In the deepest psychic caverns of Jewish thought nothing is so well known, if hidden, than the fact that the phallus is the flesh whose grafting onto the pure and perfect rootstock (Adam's pre-sin body) caused all the disease, evil, and death, that contaminate this world.

Thus, we shouldn't think it strange in the least that the foundational act that symbolizes being a Jew, or as Rabbi Hirsch says, entering into the Jewish mission in the world, is bleeding (symbolically removing) the very flesh, whose grafting onto a formerly sinless and perfect body (worthy of living in Eden) creates the original sin, and thus the Fall of mankind into the realm of the evil inclination.

No prophet so clearly prophesies the nature and essence of the arrival of Messiah as does the prophet Isaiah.

He cries that no one will receive his and his fellow prophets prophesy of the arrival of Messiah. "Who has believed our report!"

For Messiah shall sprout up before the Lord as a basal shoot grows out of the original rootstock of Adam.

Isaiah's agricultural analogy is miraculous. Too perfect. Adam allows sinful flesh, the phallus and testes, to be grafted onto a perfect body, such that the phallus becomes the tree and every one of Adam's post desecration offspring become the fruit of that sinful tree, grafted, as it was, and were, onto the perfect rootstock created by God.

And yet, as any good gardener knows, when the rootstook feels threatened, it can sometimes ignore the sexual reproductive habits of the tree grafted onto its rootstock and send a shoot, a basal sprout, out of the stump of Jesse, through asexual mechanisms, virgin propagation, in order to begin again what was conceived in the mind of God from the very beginning.

Messiah is not just another man grown out of the sinful flesh grafted onto the rootstock of the first Adam. Messiah is the second Adam, the true Son of the first Adam, as that Son was conceived to be propagated prior to the desecration that takes place in Genesis 2:21 when the false flesh is grafted on to grow a species of sinners in the very Garden of God.

Messiah is not part of that sinful species grafted onto God's original rootstock. Messiah is a shoot shooting out of the stump of that stock proclaiming to all the world the nature of the desecration and sin through which all men and women, save one, Jesus of Nazareth, are conceived and then born of the sinful tree grafted onto the very rootstock of God, the pre-sin body of Adam, in the very Garden of God.

Every iota of Jewish thought and scripture screams out to the world to open their eyes and see that the Salvation of Messiah has come into the world. He was propagated asexually, as the true Son of Adam, as a sprout from the rootstock of God. He was in the body of Adam, in Adam's roots, before the grafting on of the flesh that is the father of all sinners.

Everyone who recognizes Jesus as Adam, as the second Adam, is part and parcel of the new creation grown out of the very flesh that was grafted onto the rootstock of God to steal God's vineyard from him. Any person who takes part in the stealing of God's vineyard, by glorying in their sinful flesh, as though that sinful flesh can appease God for the theft of his vineyard, by performing fleshly mitzvot, righteous acts performed through the sinful flesh, as if God will look the other way concerning the fact that the very flesh performing the mitzvot is the sign of the desecration that is the theft of God's vineyard, these sort will receive what they richly deserve.



John
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
And the book of Zechariah extends God's promise of a man called branch
in Zech 3:8 and Zech 6:12 but clearly points forward to a priest king who would take away the sins
of the land in a day.... fits Jesus

 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
And the book of Zechariah extends God's promise of a man called branch
in Zech 3:8 and Zech 6:12 but clearly points forward to a priest king who would take away the sins
of the land in a day.... fits Jesus


Yes. The early part of the thread became the basis for a full essay posted here.



John
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Not buying the callus theory... man can be fallen without making it all about sex...
In fact man was sexual pre fall... so I disagree

I do agree as Isaiah 11:1 promised that Jesse (King David's father) is ancestor of
Messiah called branch
 

Torah4Yah

Member
Deutero-Isaiah (the latter chapters of the prophet) are pretty much all messianic to one degree or other. A more theologically important questions concerns the difference between Messiah as an individual Jew, versus Israel as a messianic people? Israel is unquestioningly a messianic people with a profound messianic mission. So distinguishing between Israel as a messianic people, and Messiah as an individual Jew is a meaningful endeavor when exegeting Deutero-Isaiah.



John
image.png
This was translated by some of my friends from the DSS.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Did you actually read Isaiah 53+ all the way through until the end of the book? At the end amd at some points prior to that it talks about the necessity of following the Law-- the entire Law-- and that certainly is not what Christians did or do.
I don't believe you could be talking about this verse:
53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I don't believe you could be talking about this verse:
53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
You didn't even begin to deal with the verses I posted that dealt with your statements about Jesus and the Law, so it appears all you did was to post the above only for your own edification.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Deutero-Isaiah (the latter chapters of the prophet) are pretty much all messianic to one degree or other. A more theologically important questions concerns the difference between Messiah as an individual Jew, versus Israel as a messianic people? Israel is unquestioningly a messianic people with a profound messianic mission. So distinguishing between Israel as a messianic people, and Messiah as an individual Jew is a meaningful endeavor when exegeting Deutero-Isaiah. John

I have a word or two about the individual and collective concepts of Messiah. Individually, the Messiah cannot exist more than one generation. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) And if you read Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Son of God, if you read Exodus 4:22,23.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Not buying the callus theory... man can be fallen without making it all about sex...
In fact man was sexual pre fall... so I disagree

I do agree as Isaiah 11:1 promised that Jesse (King David's father) is ancestor of
Messiah called branch

The Messiah called branch is a reference to Judah because according to I Kings 11:36, HaShem promised David that, for his sake, his Tribe aka Judah would remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever. That's Messiah King.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
The Messiah called branch is a reference to Judah because according to I Kings 11:36, HaShem promised David that, for his sake, his Tribe aka Judah would remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever. That's Messiah King.

Sure... and Jesus is the son of David.

But in the book of Zechariah the branch is both priest and king, so it's even more than King
and in Psalms 109, 110 the poor man helped by God is lifted to be on the order of Melchizedek, a priest king as well


The figure 'the branch' in Isaiah 11 is both root and offspring of Jesse by the way
which fits with the New Testament claim that Jesus is 'root and offspring of David'
and of course 'the Messiah' can exist forever if he is resurrected to eternal life
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Sure... and Jesus is the son of David.

But in the book of Zechariah the branch is both priest and king, so it's even more than King
and in Psalms 109, 110 the poor man helped by God is lifted to be on the order of Melchizedek, a priest king as well


The figure 'the branch' in Isaiah 11 is both root and offspring of Jesse by the way
which fits with the New Testament claim that Jesus is 'root and offspring of David'
and of course 'the Messiah' can exist forever if he is resurrected to eternal life

There is only one option for you to be right about this but, I am sure you won't take it because, you prefer to be on the wrong side of this issue than to contradict Christian preconceived notions. The option is that you must agree that Jesus was a biological son of Joseph. That's the only chance Jesus had to be of the lineage of David. If you don't agree, Jesus was still a Jew because of Mary his mother but a Jew without a Tribe in Israel. Think carefully because, to be a Jew without a Tribe in Israel at that time was a big shame because, according to Josephus, the Roman soldiers in Israel raped thousands of young Jewish ladies and thousands of little momzers were born without Jewish fathers.
 
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