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Isaac and Ishmael
- Thread starter idav
- Start date
No, Not a product of sin.
Also to me, it was Not a question of God playing favorites, but that God keeps His word, keeps His promises.
Besides making a promise to father Abraham, God made his wife Sarah as part of that promise - Genesis 21:12 B
Please notice it says singular ' seed ' and Not seeds, nor off springs ( plural ).
Sarah would have to be part of God's promise as noted at Genesis 17:15-16
God chose Sarah according to Genesis 17:19; Genesis 17:21
So, all families of Earth will be blessed through Abraham and Sarah - Genesis 12:3
And all nations of Earth will be blessed through Abraham and Sarah - Genesis 22:18
Ishmael was part of another blessed covenant or contract according to Genesis 17:20
Tumah
Veteran Member
Something god didn't want Abraham to do.
So Abraham had two sons but only one son represented the covenant made.
Tumah
Veteran Member
In that case, no, I don't think so. Maybe according to some Jewish literature Ishmael was necessary in producing Isaac.
Abraham had 8 sons.
So many sons yet only a couple matter to god? Wouldn't they all be part of the covenant. This thread I keep hearing a song in my head about Abraham having many sons.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I mean, this is a background on the nation of Israel. Doesn't that make any character in any situation unrelated to that subject, already unimportant with respect to the narrative.
Which covenant?
Sorry.
Israel is said to be of Jacob specifically, Isaac's son.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Deut. 10:15?
That answers part of the question. Lets say God tells Abraham that he will be the cause of a great nation. Does that mean all his kids, or is there something significant between Jacobs 12 sons and Ishmaels 12 sons, or Abrahams other children for that matter. I guess the verse is saying, "he loves them all' but is only one nation is greatest, or does that mean all of Abraham's descendants? Thats kind of why I want to hear Islams take on this also, which if I remember right, they believe the line of Isaac is indeed of great importance.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Well if its just about being a great nation Ishmael has that blessing in Gen. 17:20 and 21:13.
The significance of Jacob's twelve is as the children of Israel who were chosen to receive the Torah per Deut 10.
In Gen. 15, G-d makes a covenant to give his "seed" Canaan, the land of the ten nations. In Gen. 17 G-d throws in some other things. Later in verse 19, G-d specifies that the covenant will follow through Isaac specifically and not all of his kids, but that Ishmael will also get some perks. In 21:12 G-d explains that only Isaac is going to be considered Abraham's "seed", but that Ishmael is getting his perks because technically he is his kid too. Then in Gen. 28:13, G-d passes the covenant down to Jacob over Esau.
I have no idea.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
We can give some of the credit to father Adam's writings according to Genesis 5.
Noah could have brought Adam's Book of Generations along with him on the Ark.
As far as who is the Author of the Bible, the credit is given to God according to 2 Timothy 3:16-17
So, to me, whoever penned Genesis (Moses is given the credit) simply wrote what God wanted him to write down for us.
2 Timothy is irrelevant.
Not irrelevant to the Christian Scriptures.
Jesus often prefaced his statements from the old Hebrew Scriptures by saying, " it is written....."
So, to Christians 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is as relevant as Psalms 119:105.
Both works apparently refer to Torah. The claim that the author of 2 Timothy was referring to his own epistle or to future Christian writings, e.g., the synoptic gospels, is preposterous.
gnostic
The Lost One
According to the Qur'an, Hagar is also Abraham's wife.
But in Genesis, Sarah was Abraham's wife and Hagar was his concubine. Hagar was Sarah's slave when Abraham and Sarah left Egypt.
The way I understand it, having sex with a concubine is not considered a sin. So it isn't adultery.
Jacob had two wives (who were sisters) and two concubines.
The question for me, is Ishmael considered a "*******" (I'm not swearing, here) because Abraham wasn't wedded to Hagar?
I don't know, because I don't know what were the rights concubines and her children might have.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
As I understood the story, sleeping with Hagar wasn't a sin because as Sarah's slave, legally the child would be Sarah's.
No, 2nd Timothy is Not referring to his own or future writings, etc. but to God as Author - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
The '66' books of Bible canon are the complete Scriptures of both the Hebrew and Christian eras.
The apocryphal books simply exclude themselves being out of harmony with the ' 66 ' books.
The ' 66 ' have internal harmony among the 40 different writers.
That is why we see corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses or passages throughout the '66' being in harmony with each other. And why Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, "it is written....." meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures.