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Is Vegetarian for you?

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
You only eat the meat of animals that are already dead from a cause other than yourself
So your nonsensical claim that "Eating meat and animal products doesn't require killing any beings" should have said "Eating meat and animal products doesn't require killing any beings by me, which means that the responsibility for the killing is not directly mine so I think that makes it perfectly acceptable for me."
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So your nonsensical claim that "Eating meat and animal products doesn't require killing any beings" should have said "Eating meat and animal products doesn't require killing any beings by me, which means that the responsibility for the killing is not directly mine so I think that makes it perfectly acceptable for me."
No, it doesn't need to be rewritten at all. I was quite technically correct as I wrote it. You're just upset because it is correct and undermines a presumption you had.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Or you wait around animals that you know will die. For example salmon die shortly after spawning. Simply be around where they spawn and harvest them right after they die.

Maybe this is what you do, but generally speaking the annual 75,000,000,000 cows, chickens, pigs, and sheep that are prematurely curtailed have been killed. But not by you.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Hence the "sort of" as I wrote. Although some eggs do get fertilized but then die spontaneously or due to "failure to thrive" from lack of incubation.
backpedal-dog.gif


So I won't be getting an answer to my question about how many times you've eaten meat from animals that died of natural causes then.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Eating meat and animal products doesn't require killing any beings. Eating animals or animal products, per se, is no more environmentally costly than not eating them. It depends on how it is done.
So how do you eat finned, four-leggèd, or feathered beings without killing them?
You only eat the meat of animals that are already dead from a cause other than yourself. Animals can die without you being the one that killed them.
Road kill, or a slaughterhouse you have no stock in?
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Hence the "sort of" as I wrote. Although some eggs do get fertilized but then die spontaneously or due to "failure to thrive" from lack of incubation.
And for every hen raised for egg production purposes, one male chick is ground ("macerated") or gassed. Male chicks are deemed unproductive for the egg industry, as they do not lay eggs, and their meat has no economic value for the meat industry. The latest figure for this practice is 330 million a year in Europe alone.


 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Or you wait around animals that you know will die. For example salmon die shortly after spawning. Simply be around where they spawn and harvest them right after they die.
Have you seen spawning salmon? They're rotting to death. By the time they die they're so decrepit and hormone-filled who would want to eat them?
See my post about salmon. It is entirely possible to raise salmon in farms and only harvest them after they spawn.
How would you get them to spawn in open-ocean farms? Where would they lay their eggs?
Salmon are obligate river spawners
Daily. Sort of. They are called "eggs".
Are the sources of those eggs treated humanely? Do they enjoy normal chicken lives, and have normal chicken lifespans?
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A pueblo-dwelling tribe in the American Southwest survives by farming ten hectares of land, irrigated from a local river. A chemical company annexes eight hectares of their land to build a factory, and discharges chemical waste into the river. Is this right and proper; is this moral?

A community of animals depends on 100 hectares of habitat to survive. A farmer comes, cuts down the trees, and plows up 80 hectares. Is this OK? What's the difference?
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Who are the "others?" History would lead one to conclude that they comprise only one's own tribe or status community. All others are fair game.
One apparently has no moral obligation to "the other."
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
backpedal-dog.gif


So I won't be getting an answer to my question about how many times you've eaten meat from animals that died of natural causes then.
No backpeddaling done. I never said that I only ate such animals. I just wrote that it is possible to do so.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Have you seen spawning salmon? They're rotting to death. By the time they die they're so decrepit and hormone-filled who would want to eat them?

How would you get them to spawn in open-ocean farms? Where would they lay their eggs?
Salmon are obligate river spawners

Are the sources of those eggs treated humanely? Do they enjoy normal chicken lives, and have normal chicken lifespans?
None of this is relevant since I never wrote that I did these things, only that it is possible. Which it is. You can't claim that all eating of animals requires killing them. Period.

Furthermore it is also possible to humanely and cruelty-freely euthanize animals in order to eat them. Regardless of whether you personally object to that being possible or not. If you want to go down the path of denying any distinction between euthanizing and killing then you must also condemn all the veterinarians that euthanize animals to end their suffering.
 
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