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Is using the word "IF" legitimate in front of "God's" question ?
- Thread starter chinu
- Start date
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
Well... all it does is examine a hypothetical. And it can also predetermine the non-existence of God. It depends on context and the persons viewpoint.
I think you are 100 percent wrong.
It is a legitimate question and it does not predetermine the non-existence of God
exchemist
Veteran Member
Firstly a statement containing "if" is a conditional statement, not a question.
Secondly, making conditional statements about God's existence does not predetermine anything. Nor does it presuppose anything, which is maybe what you meant.
That is the whole point of a conditional statement - to avoid presupposing something relevant to whatever you want to speak about.
chinu
chinu
For example ?
chinu
chinu
Give any example and prove.
chinu
chinu
You mean questions starting with IF aren't questions actually ?
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
A believer speaking to an atheist.
Atheist: There is no God that is why there is so much suffering in the world.
Believer: If God existed, do you think that he would allow suffering like this? Do you think it might be part of his plan.
Why don’t you do a copy paste of the question that your OP appears to be responding to and we will examine it.
No. It offers God's existence as a hypothetical.
If anything, I think it predetermines that God no longer exists given the past tense of the verb in the statement.
exchemist
Veteran Member
You can tack a question onto the end of a conditional statement of course. So for instance you can say either:
- If God exists, then it seems to me his first creative act would have been to establish the laws of nature, or
- If God exists, how could we tell?
In both cases the aim is to avoid presupposing whether God exists or not and to leave it open.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
In mixed company, I talk like this all the time. It's respectful of those who do not believe in the same things that I do.
The qualifier is inserted so that my words don't sound preachy, even though yes, you're right; it's kinda BS.
chinu
chinu
Can any believer believe that water is dry ? Never.
Because, a believer always need some kind of suspect to believe something.
"Believing in something" in itself is kinda a suspect-condition.
Otherwise there would have been no need of believe. Rather simply just sure.
Therefore, believer speaking to an atheist, is equal to atheist speaking to atheist.
Please give some another example
No. Quite the opposite. It avoids any presupposition.
A statement like "The Bible was inspired by God" does presuppose God. Adding "if" does not; it just changes the statement to a hypothetical or conditional.
I disagree. People believe all sorts bizarre things, completely without support.
There's a need to believe?
Many believers claim they are sure.
Huh?Therefore, believer speaking to an atheist, is equal to atheist speaking to atheist.
Please give some another example
chinu
chinu
Because I don't think any such question is a legitimate question.
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
Can any believer believe that water is dry ? Never.
Because, a believer always need some kind of suspect to believe something.
"Believing in something" in itself is kinda a suspect-condition.
Otherwise there would have been no need of believe. Rather simply just sure.
Therefore, believer speaking to an atheist, is equal to atheist speaking to atheist.
Please give some another example
That doesn't follow. The very fact that we call them "believers" require that they believe. If they were simply sure, then they wouldn't be believers anymore.
But I think I know where you are heading. The problem is that you are using the wrong words.
Theist and atheist are positions on belief, not knowledge. Someone being sure is a knowledge claim, not a belief claim.
chinu
chinu
If this is so,
Then any such question is legitimate for atheist asking to atheist, NOT theist.
Any such question is NOT legitimate for theists
Because theists DOES-NOT hypothetical the existence of God.
Rather, theist's are sure about God.
I see it more as a question which may directed at someone's idea of God. It's not just about existence or non-existence, but about certain character traits ascribed to God by those who believe in God and propagate such beliefs. Such as when people say "God loves us" or "God is all-powerful and all-knowing."
It wouldn't necessarily predetermine the non-existence of "God" overall, but it may challenge certain specific concepts of God which are commonly held by many in our society.
Copying the question does not imply that you agree that it is legitimate.