Is socialism the change we can believe in?

[Reverend Rick]

We have become an entitlement nation. Many people believe they are entitled to a home and health care even if they do not work.

After the election, people voted for change. Is that change socialism? When 10% of Americans pay 70% of the taxes, but the majority of Americans decide that they are entitled to help with their mortage and health insurance while they themselves pay little or no taxes themselves, they have become generous with other people's money.

The majority of Americans have started a class warfare situation where the majority has voted to take away wealth from the minority. This sense of entitlement from womb to tomb at other's expense will not fly much longer.

I would say that 3 out of 4 Americans feel some sort of entitlement at some one Else's expense. Here is the deal, one in four pays 80% of the taxes and does not drink the liberal kool-aid that has our country so drunk on entitlements.

Think about this one for a moment in time. What if everyone quit making their mortage payments and decided that they just might take a few years off from work and carrying the burden of so many dependant Americans? Basically one hard working American is carrying the burden of four. Who Pays Income Taxes? See Who Pays What

It is quite possible for some Americans to stop working all together. They have already made enough money and paid their taxes in full and could just sit back and watch the situation unfold. It is not fair that the people who did not borrow more than they can afford and live within their means watch their life savings become worthless because of inflation.

Barrack Obama is some sort of modern day Robin Hood and wants to reward failure while penalising the folks who have done everything right. I realise I am in the minority, but the minority still can close up shop and owe no taxes next year.

If Obama is going to reward failure, perhaps the people who create jobs and invest just might sit next year out all together and reap the benefits right along with the rest of the losers.

If there is no incentive to work hard, save and invest, why bother? Just take a look at the stock market.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

It's good to have you around, Rick.

It helps the rest of us to never forget what destroyed our country. As I said before - unfortunately - the Republicans are ready to destroy us again if anything survives.

Such relentless, all-consuming, self-destructive misanthropic obstinance is truly breath-taking.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Tell me, Rick, because I don't remember...

Did you have any affection for the $650 billion package passed by Bush in 9/2008? Or possibly the $750 billion that he approved for Iraq in that same month?

 

[Nanda]

Your contempt for the struggling never ceases to amaze me. So many people in this country work their fingers to the bone, but still can't afford homes or health insurance.

 

[jacobweymouth]

It helps the rest of us to never forget what destroyed our country.

I'll paraphrase what someone else -I'm thinking it was George F. Will- said.

We had a good sociey. The Left decided we needed a Great Society, and that's what destroyed this country.

As I said before - unfortunately - the Republicans are ready to destroy us again if anything survives.

Destroy again? Has anything been repaired yet?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Your contempt for the struggling never ceases to amaze me. So many people in this country work their fingers to the bone, but still can't afford homes or health insurance.

I don't know if this characterizes the problem enough.

It's simply blind to awesome, mindless, destructive actions of the Republican governments rewarding greedy *successful* corporations with tax cuts -- the same people who are responsible for the failing economy were rewarding corporate greed and helping to protect both the businesses and business owners from any consequences.

Bush gave money to people that we should execute for crimes against the state, and will waste an estimated $3 TRILLION dollars in Iraq. When I was a freshman in college 13 years ago, our entire national debt was about $4.5 trillion.

What we see in the OP is truly garbage in, garbage out. Not to the extent, I admit, of our completely mindless Republican troll (Investocracy).

 

[Magic Man]

I just have one question, Rick: Can you point me in the direction of these people who think that people shouldn't have to contribute to this country in some way?

As far as I know, everyone pretty much agrees that people should work if they can, and if they can't should contribute in another way, if possible, and if they just aren't able to contribute at all through no fault of their own, then they should be helped by the rest of us. I know it's hard for a staunch capitalist to understand the concept of helping other people even when it means your own "hard-earned dollars", but there are some of us who like to follow Jesus's advice, even though we're not Christians.

 

[Nepenthe]

I love how the term "socialism" is tossed around by the Inerrant Market Zealots©- do they even understand what socialism is? Do they really think Obama- a right of center capitalist who received 25 million from Wall St., supports a health-care system that gives authority back to private insurance, and on and on...- is proposing anything even remotely socialist?

Rev. Rick, You forgot to blame the current economic global meltdown on FNMA and FHLMC for securitizing mortgages.... or just come up with some other Ayn-Randbot-Libertopian propoganda to cover the fact that the laissez faire approach failed here.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'll paraphrase what someone else -I'm thinking it was George F. Will- said.

We had a good sociey. The Left decided we needed a Great Society, and that's what destroyed this country.

Yes, I wonder when he said it.

Maybe when Clinton was in office?

He ain't seen nothing yet.

I wonder if he's in denial or if the recession made him a little more mature.

 

[Magic Man]

We had a good sociey. The Left decided we needed a Great Society, and that's what destroyed this country.

Yes, it's always easy to classify it it as "the other", in this case "the left". That way, you can just throw all of the blame onto them, and not have to worry about it anymore.

I'm very curious, though, what you think "the left" did to destroy the "good society" that, presumably, "the right" had built.

And one more thing, now there's a problem with wanting a great society? Will wonders never cease?

 

[PureX]

We have become an entitlement nation. Many people believe they are entitled to a home and health care even if they do not work.

So, you are suggesting that if someone is sick, but doesn't have a job or any money, they should be turned away from health care, and left to suffer and die in the streets? Is that really the kind of nation you want to live in? Is that really the kind of man you are?

Likewise, are you the kind of man who would see people sleeping on the sidewalks and under bridged in the cold because they have no money or a job? Is it OK for you to ignore their suffering as long as you can tell yourself that their suffering is their own fault?

After the election, people voted for change. Is that change socialism? When 10% of Americans pay 70% of the taxes, but the majority of Americans decide that they are entitled to help with their mortage and health insurance while they themselves pay little or no taxes themselves, they have become generous with other people's money.

This is very vague. Exactly who is claiming that they are entitled to health care and a home? And exactly who isn't? And exactly how do you know this? As far as I can tell, most people in the U.S. believe that we should have national health care like all the other major industrialized nations of the world. And likewise, most americans believe that it's a social responsibility to keep our fellow citizens fed, clothed, and sheltered from the cold, and are willing to pay some taxes to make this happen. I am aware of only a few right wing extremists that would actually prefer to see people suffer and die in the streets rather that pay any tax dollars to help them.

The majority of Americans have started a class warfare situation where the majority has voted to take away wealth from the minority. This sense of entitlement from womb to tomb at other's expense will not fly much longer.

The nation's wealth has been accumulating in the hands of a very small number of people for many decades. And all they've been doing with it is using it to accumulate more. It's destablizing to the nation's economy and dangerous to the government and we need to find a way of reversing the trend before the nation collapses into a bloody economic revolution.

I would say that 3 out of 4 Americans feel some sort of entitlement at some one Else's expense.

You keep forgetting that the money belongs to us all, not just to those who are clever enough and greedy enough to have gained control of it. The three of four people you're talking about just want their share of a wealth that they helped generate. And they see universal health care as more important than the lomos and yatchs of the uber-wealthy.

Here is the deal, one in four pays 80% of the taxes and does not drink the liberal kool-aid that has our country so drunk on entitlements.

I'm betting that you don't have a shred of evidence to back up this foolishness.

Barrack Obama is some sort of modern day Robin Hood and wants to reward failure while penalising the folks who have done everything right. I realise I am in the minority, but the minority still can close up shop and owe no taxes next year.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

If Obama is going to reward failure, perhaps the people who create jobs and invest just might sit next year out all together and reap the benefits right along with the rest of the losers.

If there is no incentive to work hard, save and invest, why bother? Just take a look at the stock market.

Now you know how poor people feel.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'm impressed with how little time has passed.

We have all the greedy, filthy CEOs during the Bush administration who were able to fleece the American people - milking them in new and creative ways - both legally and illegally, and this greed has caused markets all over the world to sink to unprecedented lows.

If I were a Republican, I wouldn't lie about this until enough time has passed so that people don't even recognize the name "Bush" - but Republicans hardly dare to whisper it, perferring instead to throw their mud at Obama, in the fashion of a monkey throwing its own poo (that is, the Republicans created this vile mess). If Republicans say a name, it's Reagan, forgetting his deregulation and little ditty in Iran.

Very bold to lie at this point in the game, but the Republicans have viewed the American people with such contempt before.

 

[Reverend Rick]

We should not have a graduated income tax. Then when we vote for tax increases we all will have to pay more. When I can vote that YOU pay more, that is crazy.

And another thing, I am all for charity. I am not for someone demanding that I help them however. You are responsible for yourself. If you fail in life, you are not entitled to help. It is something that is given to you.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

We should not have a graduated income tax. Then when we vote for tax increases we all will have to pay more. When I can vote that YOU pay more, that is crazy.

And another thing, I am all for charity. I am not for someone demanding that I help them however. You are responsible for yourself. If you fail in life, you are not entitled to help. It is something that is given to you.

Have you noticed that the entire economy is failing?

Just curious.

 

[Magic Man]

We should not have a graduated income tax. Then when we vote for tax increases we all will have to pay more. When I can vote that YOU pay more, that is crazy.

Why? If I make $38,000 a year and am trying to support a kid by myself, and you're making $1 million dollars a year, why should I pay the same tax percentage as you? The government needs the money. It simply can't come from low-income households. It's impossible. So, it's only logical (maybe that's the part that's losing you) that the people who actually can pay more taxes do so, or the whole country fails.

And another thing, I am all for charity. I am not for someone demanding that I help them however. You are responsible for yourself. If you fail in life, you are not entitled to help. It is something that is given to you.

Yeah, let's not worry about what some guy named Jesus Christ said, huh? (I'm assuming you've heard of him)

 

[Reverend Rick]

So, it's only logical (maybe that's the part that's losing you) that the people who actually can pay more taxes do so, or the whole country fails.

Which is exactly my point. When we become a socialist country, Capitalist will have no incentive to save, invest or hire folks. When the people who carry the water quit bringing water to the drinkers of the water, they are going to get quite thirsty.

Here is the deal, the water carriers carry water for a profit. That is our incentive. When you reward failure and penalise success, everyone will fail.

 

[McBell]

We should not have a graduated income tax.

I agree.
I have said for years we needs a flat income tax.

Everyone pays say 10%.
No exceptions, no conditional modifiers, no tax breaks, no loop holes, etc.
To bad that it is the rich, you know, the ones taking the most advantage of said exceptions, loop holes, tax breaks, etc. that run the country.

In short, a flat tax will never happen because the rich would actually have to pay their fair share of taxes.

 

[Magic Man]

Which is exactly my point. When we become a socialist country, Capitalist will have no incentive to save, invest or hire folks. When the people who carry the water quit bringing water to the drinkers of the water, they are going to get quite thirsty.

When and how do you figure we'll become socialist? It certainly won't be with Obama, and I doubt it'll ever really happen. I think you're overreacting a bit here.

Here is the deal, the water carriers carry water for a profit. That is our incentive. When you reward failure and penalise success, everyone will fail.

Here is the deal: No one is saying people can't make profit. No one is saying everyone has to make the same amount. All people are saying is that the people who make $1 million a year make $600,000 after taxes rather than $700,000 (numbers not accurate, of course, just getting a point across). That's still $560,000 dollars more than the guy making $40,000 after taxes. Please, try to make a point without responding to a strawman.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'm betting that you don't have a shred of evidence to back up this foolishness.

I gave you something to click on. Now we can go through the motions and you can say my source is not creditable.

 

[McBell]

What do they mean by "Adjusted Gross Income"?