Is Religion doing more harm than good?

[blackout]

How should I know, and why should I care?

And why must there be a "leading" cause?

Because we need to wrap this thing up and go home.

 

[phokist33]

I find life, from a stance of general non-belief.... much more interesting.

I thought you said you were a thiest?

anyways, if that's really how you view, I agree with you in the above quote, and I too look at life from a stance of general non-belief. It is more interesting, and in general i think it's more comforting to just not know, and claim you don't know, than it is to promote cerainty

 

[phokist33]

this is sirected to Riverwolf, out of curiosity, what exactly is your belief in Lord Ganesh, I've never heard of that, or i might have, and don't recognize it

 

[phokist33]

How should I know, and why should I care?

And why must there be a "leading" cause?

Well there has to be some reason that people believe in religion. Personally I thought that it was the big questions like mentioned before that explain why people devote thier lives to it. if not those questions, then what cause could be great enough to make people believe in something without so much as a shred of proof. Nothing else that is as important as religion is taken on shear emotions. Most things in life need proof and are not supposed to be guesses

 

[blackout]

I thought you said you were a thiest?

anyways, if that's really how you view, I agree with you in the above quote, and I too look at life from a stance of general non-belief. It is more interesting, and in general i think it's more comforting to just not know, and claim you don't know, than it is to promote cerainty

I am a thiest.

I am a Panthiest/Panenthiest.
I am also a practitioner of the LHP.

 

[phokist33]

I meant most important* things on the last reply

 

[blackout]

I meant most important* things on the last reply

Click the "edit" button... and you can fix it.
(just don't wait too long)

 

[Riverwolf]

this is sirected to Riverwolf, out of curiosity, what exactly is your belief in Lord Ganesh, I've never heard of that, or i might have, and don't recognize it

You know when you get an idea, or suddenly realize or remember something, a light bulb goes on in your head? Lord Ganesha is the one who turned it on.

Basically, Lord Ganesha, the remover of obstacles, is what's at work when we suddenly remember something, come up with a solution to a problem, etc. Literally speaking, it's a force in the human psyche, so when I pray to the elephant-headed deity, that's what I'm trying to invoke. I do not believe in a literal existence of any deity.

Of course, I'm still getting to know Lord Ganesha; I only became a Hindu very recently and am still learning the ropes. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

Well there has to be some reason that people believe in religion. Personally I thought that it was the big questions like mentioned before that explain why people devote thier lives to it. if not those questions, then what cause could be great enough to make people believe in something without so much as a shred of proof. Nothing else that is as important as religion is taken on shear emotions. Most things in life need proof and are not supposed to be guesses

Well, such questions could have been the reasons before, but many of them can be answered more effectively by science nowadays.

If you want my opinion, I'd say one of the reasons why so many are religious is because they were brought up with religion, so it's their comfort zone.

 

[blackout]

You know when you get an idea, or suddenly realize or remember something, a light bulb goes on in your head? Lord Ganesha is the one who turned it on.

Basically, Lord Ganesha, the remover of obstacles, is what's at work when we suddenly remember something, come up with a solution to a problem, etc. Literally speaking, it's a force in the human psyche, so when I pray to the elephant-headed deity, that's what I'm trying to invoke. I do not believe in a literal existence of any deity.

Of course, I'm still getting to know Lord Ganesha; I only became a Hindu very recently and am still learning the ropes. ^_^

I like that. Lord Ganesha, remover of obstacles.

Hinduism (as I percieve it) is very appealing to me,
on a number of levels.
(though it does not quite embody my asthetic)

 

[MoonWater]

stories are stories though, I am not gonna read a fictional book and run my life off of it. Star wars is a story yes, ad at the same time the happenings that take place in that book aren't real, so I don't think your counter argument against mine is very good either. I'm talking about religion in genereal, it becomes a bigger deal than just a fictional tale when people run thier lives based on it.

you can recognize something as fictional or mythological and still use it as a guide for life without believing in it literally. It's not about believing in the stories but about the lessons and wisdoms one can gleam from them. There are actually several people out there who follow the jedi way as their religion. They don't believe star wars to be literally true but the believe the jedi set a good example as to how one can live a good and noble life; they like what the jedi teach, see wisdom and the code and seek to live by those teachings as best they can. I myself follow the sith code not because I believe the sith literally exist but because I see it as a very practicle way to live that is more true to myself and the way things are(at least as I see them). It doesn't matter that the jedi or the sith don't literally exist, what matters is what people got out of the stories. That's what stories were originally invented for, to teach lessons to children. Even Jesus himself taught his disciples through the use of parables, through stories. It didn't matter whether the stories themselves actually happened, what mattered was the lessons his disciples learned from them.

In that same sense it doesn't really matter if the gods themselves literally exist externally or if they are nothing more than aspects of the human psyche and sub-conscious as riverwolf and I believe. Either way we still obtain wisdom from them and learn a great deal about ourselves from them as well. It's not about the gods existing or the stories being true, it's about learning, spiritual and personal growth, obtaining wisdom, and all that. Unfortunately many people forget that, including religious people.

 

[phokist33]

You know when you get an idea, or suddenly realize or remember something, a light bulb goes on in your head? Lord Ganesha is the one who turned it on.

but that's not necessary true. most view that as your conscience. not some being talking to you, but that's ok. I disagree with your beliefs, but of course you are entitled to your opinion

 

[phokist33]

you can recognize something as fictional or mythological and still use it as a guide for life without believing in it literally. It's not about believing in the stories but about the lessons and wisdoms one can gleam from them.

that was the same thing I was talking about. but thanks for reinforcing it i guess

 

[Luminous]

Bear **** smells when you are next to it. What happens when you are not there?

bear **** = God.

 

[MountainHumanist]

that was the same thing I was talking about. but thanks for reinforcing it i guess

You would probably enjoy the writings of Joseph Campbell. He was a well-known mythologist who wrote about finding meaning and life application in myths (and he thought all world religions were mythic rather than literal/historical.

 

[MountainHumanist]

you can recognize something as fictional or mythological and still use it as a guide for life without believing in it literally. It's not about believing in the stories but about the lessons and wisdoms one can gleam from them. There are actually several people out there who follow the jedi way as their religion. They don't believe star wars to be literally true but the believe the jedi set a good example as to how one can live a good and noble life; they like what the jedi teach, see wisdom and the code and seek to live by those teachings as best they can. I myself follow the sith code not because I believe the sith literally exist but because I see it as a very practicle way to live that is more true to myself and the way things are(at least as I see them). It doesn't matter that the jedi or the sith don't literally exist, what matters is what people got out of the stories. That's what stories were originally invented for, to teach lessons to children. Even Jesus himself taught his disciples through the use of parables, through stories. It didn't matter whether the stories themselves actually happened, what mattered was the lessons his disciples learned from them.

In that same sense it doesn't really matter if the gods themselves literally exist externally or if they are nothing more than aspects of the human psyche and sub-conscious as riverwolf and I believe. Either way we still obtain wisdom from them and learn a great deal about ourselves from them as well. It's not about the gods existing or the stories being true, it's about learning, spiritual and personal growth, obtaining wisdom, and all that. Unfortunately many people forget that, including religious people.

Did you hear about the Jedi follower in Wales who got kicked out of grocery store for refusing to remove his hood? He sued them.

As far as I can tell Lucas' Jedi code is mostly reworked Buddhism with a bit of Taoism and Pantheism mixed in.

 

[Quagmire]

Well, you asserted that because there is no proof we have religion. What did you mean by this?

This would be a topic for another thread. For now I'll just say; if God were sitting on a mountain in plain view next to a big sign saying "GOT ANY QUESTIONS? JUST ASK", there wouldn't be any need for religion. Religion is man's attempt to explain, understand, and (sometimes) interact with that which isn't readily observable.

so because there is no proof, people decide to believe for what reason?

Like I said; all kinds of reasons.

To make them sleep better at night? either way it seems to be a cop out for people who can't handle the big question of "where do i go when i die?" without there being some cause behind it.

Seems to you. Just how much time have you spent studying religion or talking to religious people about what they believe and why?

Point is that we can't possibly know what happens, so because something like that is too big for someone to handle, they make up a story and believe in it.

Is this a question? If it isn't, if it's a statement, I'm just going to leave it hanging and refer you to my previous answer.

 

[Perfect Circle]

but that's not necessary true. most view that as your conscience. not some being talking to you, but that's ok. I disagree with your beliefs, but of course you are entitled to your opinion

I think that's what he's getting at though. He completely understands that there is no being literally moving things out of the way. He views it as a part of his psyche. As such, when he needs an obstacle removed, he invokes this part of his psyche.

Did I get that right Riverwolf, or completely butcher it? :help:

 

[Riverwolf]

but that's not necessary true. most view that as your conscience. not some being talking to you, but that's ok. I disagree with your beliefs, but of course you are entitled to your opinion

It's not a "being" talking. It's a personification of part of the human psyche.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think that's what he's getting at though. He completely understands that there is no being literally moving things out of the way. He views it as a part of his psyche. As such, when he needs an obstacle removed, he invokes this part of his psyche.

Did I get that right Riverwolf, or completely butcher it? :help:

You hit it right smack dab in the middle! Frubals!

Of course, since I'm just starting out, most of the obstacles are still around...