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Is Proverbs 30:4 Jesus?

Teritos

Teritos

Active Member
Proverbs 30:4
Who has ascended into heaven and descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has wrapped the waters in His garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name or His Son’s name?
Surely you know!

I believe that this is Jesus, for several reasons,
reason one: Jesus is the only one who has ascended into heaven and descended(John 3:13) and Jesus is the only Son of God(John 3:16).
reason two: Jesus is the creator of all things(John 1:3, John 1:10, Colossians 1:16-20)
reason three: The Hebrew text itself says it, Vertical: Yeshua(Jesus) and Horizontal: HaShem(the name). Which together shows a cross.
30611634263_bd1583c5a7_b.jpg
 
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Teritos

Teritos

Active Member
Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Teritos said:
Who has ascended into heaven and descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has wrapped the waters in His garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name or His Son’s name?
Surely you know!

I believe that this is Jesus
Click to expand...
So tell me, when Proverbs was written, many centuries before Jesus's time, did people stare at King Solomon when he asked this question because they didn't know who this "son" is, or did they all shout in unison "Jesus!!!"?
 
Teritos

Teritos

Active Member
Harel13 said:
So tell me, when Proverbs was written, many centuries before Jesus's time, did people stare at King Solomon when he asked this question because they didn't know who this "son" is, or did they all shout in unison "Jesus!!!"?
Click to expand...
I think the ancient Hebrews already knew about Jesus and the crucifixion. Jesus himself said that Abraham saw his day and rejoiced(John 8:56). Or when Isaac asked where the lamb for offering is and Abraham answered that God will provide for himself the lamb, by that he meant Jesus. Jesus also said that the prophets and kings desired to see and hear him(Luke 10:24), so they knew about Him and also what was going to happen.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Rival said:
This is sarcasm. It's a rhetorical question.
Click to expand...

Nevertheless it is true that the Jews of that time did not know if God had a Son or the name of His Son.
Going by the Hebrew scriptures it is indeed possible that God has a Son. eg Psalm 89 and Ps 2.
 
Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Teritos said:
I think the ancient Hebrews already knew about Jesus and the crucifixion. Jesus himself said that Abraham saw his day and rejoiced(John 8:56). Or when Isaac asked where the lamb for offering is and Abraham answered that God will provide for himself the lamb, by that he meant Jesus. Jesus also said that the prophets and kings desired to see and hear him(Luke 10:24), so they knew about Him and also what was going to happen.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the honesty. I find that usually the sort of questions such as the one I posed above leads to a lot of hemming and hawing and finally evading the question altogether, or bringing some answer that's based on twisting scripture.
So, in your view, when did the big memory cataclysm happen? When did people forget about Jesus?
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Harel13 said:
I appreciate the honesty. I find that usually the sort of questions such as the one I posed above leads to a lot of hemming and hawing and finally evading the question altogether, or bringing some answer that's based on twisting scripture.
So, in your view, when did the big memory cataclysm happen? When did people forget about Jesus?
Click to expand...

I think they forgot that they did not know whether God had a Son or not.
 
Teritos

Teritos

Active Member
Harel13 said:
I appreciate the honesty. I find that usually the sort of questions such as the one I posed above leads to a lot of hemming and hawing and finally evading the question altogether, or bringing some answer that's based on twisting scripture.
So, in your view, when did the big memory cataclysm happen? When did people forget about Jesus?
Click to expand...
After the last prophet Malachi died, the people of Israel lost more and more knowledge about their scriptures.
 
Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Teritos said:
After the last prophet Malachi died, the people of Israel lost more and more knowledge about their scriptures.
Click to expand...
Can you pinpoint to more or less when this specific piece of info, which is seemingly very integral to theology, was forgotten?
 
Teritos

Teritos

Active Member
Harel13 said:
Can you pinpoint to more or less when this specific piece of info, which is seemingly very integral to theology, was forgotten?
Click to expand...
There was a long time when Israel was without a prophet, without a man through whom God spoke. Because of this, Israel lost more and more knowledge, so that they also forgot important things. We also read in the Bible that Israel was a people that quickly became godless. Especially after the time of Malachi Israel has crashed.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
Except we're talking about Mishlei.
Click to expand...
True, but in the first verse of the chapter he says it's a "burden" (translated as prophecy in KJV) and is the same word used for a prophecy in Isaiah 21 and in other places.
 
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