Is Proverbs 30:4 Jesus?

[Brian2]

When?

When did "now" begin?

When the proverb was written the Jews did not know.
By the time of Jesus they seem to have known that God did not have a son.
It was blasphemous for Jesus to say that He was the Son of God.
Psalm 89 has the story of someone who was going to say that God is His Father and whom the Jews would kill, and that God would be angry about this.
But I suppose you read Psalm 89 differently.

 

[Harel13]

When the proverb was written the Jews did not know.

So you're saying that during an era in which the Jews had prophets, people who could converse directly with God, no one had any idea that god has a son? This seems like such a key theological factor, yet they were not aware of this? Note that during Solomon's time, the Israelites aren't rebuked for not knowing of the son of god. Seems odd, I must say.

 

[Brian2]

So you're saying that during an era in which the Jews had prophets, people who could converse directly with God, no one had any idea that god has a son? This seems like such a key theological factor, yet they were not aware of this? Note that during Solomon's time, the Israelites aren't rebuked for not knowing of the son of god. Seems odd, I must say.

I don't think God had made it plain until Jesus came.

 

[Clara Tea]

Proverbs 30:4
Who has ascended into heaven and descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has wrapped the waters in His garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name or His Son’s name?
Surely you know!

I believe that this is Jesus, for several reasons,
reason one: Jesus is the only one who has ascended into heaven and descended(John 3:13) and Jesus is the only Son of God(John 3:16).
reason two: Jesus is the creator of all things(John 1:3, John 1:10, Colossians 1:16-20)
reason three: The Hebrew text itself says it, Vertical: Yeshua(Jesus) and Horizontal: HaShem(the name). Which together shows a cross.

Uh......Popeye?

 

[Harel13]

I don't think God had made it plain until Jesus came.

Why?

 

[Brian2]

Why?

That's just how it is.
The Messiah is called the Son of God in the Hebrew Scriptures.
Why was it not clear till Jesus came that the Messiah would be the Son of God.
I think it was not clear that the Messiah would be the type of Son of God that Jesus claimed to be. That the Messiah is called the Son of God seems clear enough.

 

[Yahcubs777]

Amen.

Revelation 22:18-19
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

By the way, the book spoken about is the book of Revelation. It didn't come at the end of any other book, just Revelation. That is to show its what John the Beloved wrote. Not to say that anyone should add or minus, but this verse denies the omniscient nature of the GOD, the ability and power to protect HIS Word, and the All knowing abilitiy of the GOD. Thus, its not written well. What this means, is that GOD's Plan is pefect, and no one can add, or minus from it. See the difference? GOD cannot be mocked.

 

[Yahcubs777]

When the proverb was written the Jews did not know.
By the time of Jesus they seem to have known that God did not have a son.
It was blasphemous for Jesus to say that He was the Son of God.
Psalm 89 has the story of someone who was going to say that God is His Father and whom the Jews would kill, and that God would be angry about this.
But I suppose you read Psalm 89 differently.

There are many verses that outright prove this theory false. But I will just show two.

Revelation 13
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Yahcubs777]

Alright if a prophet prophecies how could he really fully understand his prophecy? God only knows what he's saying.

No. Prophesying is not only divination of someones life, or a future event, but the message of Salvation is preached by the Spirit of Prophecy. They wrote: The Gospel of Jesus (His Pre-Eminence) is the Spirit of Prophecy. A Prophet is not sent to a people without his message to the people that is vital for them to know how to be saved.

 

[Harel13]

That's just how it is.
The Messiah is called the Son of God in the Hebrew Scriptures.
Why was it not clear till Jesus came that the Messiah would be the Son of God.
I think it was not clear that the Messiah would be the type of Son of God that Jesus claimed to be. That the Messiah is called the Son of God seems clear enough.

So Solomon also didn't know.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't think God had made it plain until Jesus came.

I think you meant Paul. Even so, the claim is laughable.

 

[InChrist]

I think you meant Paul. Even so, the claim is laughable.

Except Peter, James, John and the other apostles, along with all the thousands of Jews who made up the early church, before Paul and who were persecuted by Saul/Paul, weren’t laughing. They were serious about their belief in Jesus Christ and who He was.

 

[Harel13]

before Paul and who were persecuted by Saul/Paul, weren’t laughing.

I find it strange that a Sadducee High Priest would send a heretical Pharisee to kill, at best, a few hundred Christians in Damascus, when there were so many more heretics right there in Judea. At the same time, I find it strange that a zealous Pharisee such as Paul would be willing to take orders from a heretical Sadducee High Priest, and having been close enough to him while receiving the order, didn't gut him with his knife/other weapon, as one is supposed to do with heretics.

 

[Brian2]

There are many verses that outright prove this theory false. But I will just show two.

Revelation 13
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I cannot see how those scriptures contradict what I said.

 

[Brian2]

So Solomon also didn't know.

I don't know what Solomon knew or not. I don't know if some Jews would have guessed or worked out that the Messiah would be God's Son in the way Jesus said.

 

[Brian2]

I think you meant Paul. Even so, the claim is laughable.

It was Jesus who claimed to be the Son of God in a way that the Jewish establishment of the day called blasphemy and tried to stone Him. I guess they laughed at it also but it was not a happy laugh because it was when Jesus admitted to being the Christ, the Son of God that they said they did not need any further evidence and condemned Him to death.
Then of course they had to get Pontius Pilate on board with it so they said to him that Jesus claimed to be the King of the Jews.

 

[Harel13]

I don't know what Solomon knew or not. I don't know if some Jews would have guessed or worked out that the Messiah would be God's Son in the way Jesus said.

I expect that if Solomon knew that the coming messiah would be the only being who could truly atone for mankind's sins, he wouldn't have wasted all of that money and effort on building the Temple.

 

[Yahcubs777]

I cannot see how those scriptures contradict what I said.

The book of the lamb has contained the names of the children of the kingdom since the foundation of the world. Its not that GOD adds and subtracts names, HE is all knowing. HE sees what happens before it happens. That is how it contradicts what you said.

 

[Yahcubs777]

I expect that if Solomon knew that the coming messiah would be the only being who could truly atone for mankind's sins, he wouldn't have wasted all of that money and effort on building the Temple.

And what about all the wisdom that he wasted by worshipping false gods? Is that not worse?

 

[Harel13]

And what about all the wisdom that he wasted by worshipping false gods? Is that not worse?

Doubtful, considering that the building of the Temple led to Israel continuing to believe that atonement sacrifices really do assist in the atonement process. I'd wager that nearly a thousand years of this belief by millions of Israelites is more of a waste than Solomon's wisdom. Pity he didn't enlighten the Israelites that the Temple is meaningless.