Is Porn Inherently Degrading?

[DallasApple]

Also ...interestingly..from another article..Annabel Chong was never paid for her "prize winning" peformance...She got ripped off..And she was assured all had been tested for aids..But many of the men were not.

Love

Dallas

 

[Ozzie]

Reviewed by Scott Tobias
March 29th, 2002


In 1995, 22-year-old USC student Grace Quek, working under the nom-de-porn Annabel Chong, pulled off the most notorious stunt in the industry's history, servicing 251 men over the course of 10 hours in a P.T. Barnum-style sideshow billed "The World's Biggest Gang Bang." The obvious question, "Why?," would normally point to the usual patterns of drug abuse, harrowing sexual trauma, and bottomed-out self-esteem that lead many women to the business. But while the checklist still applies, Quek is a more curious case, a self-styled feminist intellectual who sees her marathon session as an act of sexual empowerment. So if there's one useful piece of wisdom to be extracted from Gough Lewis' troubling, scattershot documentary, Sex: The Annabel Chong Story, it's to beware the halls of academia. With Quek's cooperation—it helps that she's a shameless exhibitionist—Lewis is given full access to her family, classmates, and colleagues in the industry. Born in Singapore and raised as an only child in a middle-class London home, Quek's decision to become a porn actress is made to seem like it came from nothing but strong ideas and a healthy sexual appetite. But in his rush to connect her willful degradation with post-feminist theory, Lewis deliberately withholds more relevant information about her past. For at least the first hour, he revels in Quek's provocative ideas about gender roles (she wants to be called a "stud") without mentioning that she was once gang-raped near a London subway at the age of 18. The correlation between that event and her subsequent career may be too direct—in an interview after the film was released, Quek asserted it was not the rape but the counseling that was dehumanizing—but how else to explain her masochistic streak? When she subjects herself to "triple penetration" or slashes her arms with a pen knife to "let the pain out," fuzzy-minded notions about empowerment fail to convince. In his thin psychological portrait, the dirty secret Lewis never confesses is that Annabel Chong, damaged and self-destructive, has more in common with other porn stars than either he or Quek is ready to admit.

Love

Dallas

I don't think any one example is relevant to the question in this thread of whether porn is inherently degrading. Quite possibly a former porn star might consider in hindsight their career as non degrading.

I don't think the number of bonks one has had is any reliable predictor.

 

[Sunstone]

I know several erotic dancers who are well adjusted, emotionally healthy individuals. I don't think it's accurate to characterize all erotic dancers as having especially troubled pasts or as being prostitutes.

 

[DallasApple]

Do you atleast agree that not ALL porn is inherently degrading?

Its not necessarily the porn itself.Its the injured hurting souls making the films that is the problem.And the sleazebags that take advantage of that for monetary gain.And the fact that very few seem to care what led them to "choose" to go into this industry..or what condition they are left in afterwards..as long as you get your visual and your orgasm who cares its their problem.

Love

Dallas

 

[Ozzie]

I know several erotic dancers who are well adjusted, emotionally healthy individuals. I don't think it's accurate to characterize all erotic dancers as having especially troubled pasts or as being prostitutes.

I'm inclined to think erotic dancers who are trampolinists are inclined to be emotionally healthy individuals.

 

[DallasApple]

I know several erotic dancers who are well adjusted, emotionally healthy individuals. I don't think it's accurate to characterize all erotic dancers as having especially troubled pasts or as being prostitutes.

I dont think so either Sunstone....In fact I myself enjoy tasteful burlesque..And even that one you linked to me in chat?..The pole dancer..I do not beleive that woman was a suffering soul.She appeared to be a very talented athlete...Not a "dime a dozen"..Or just some body to ogle over.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

I don't think any one example is relevant to the question in this thread of whether porn is inherently degrading. Quite possibly a former porn star might consider in hindsight their career as non degrading.

That was supposedly an example of a woman that was in the industry because supposedly she got a thrill out of exibiting her sexual expression..

And its not hindsight ...This particlular woman was a "cutter" during her career and on film in fact.

She was also quoted as saying she did not know who Annable Chong is..which is classic verbage indicating personality dissasociation.

If she cant even identify herself..her person with the woman in the film..How then was it her expressing herself?

Love

Dallas

 

[Ozzie]

That was supposedly an example of a woman that was in the industry because supposedly she got a thrill out of exibiting her sexual expression..

And its not hindsight ...This particlular woman was a "cutter" during her career and on film in fact.

She was also quoted as saying she did not know who Annable Chong is..which is classic verbage indicating personality dissasociation.

If she cant even identify herself..her person with the woman in the film..How then was it her expressing herself?

Love

Dallas

Quite possibly a porn career would lead one to be dissociated...especially in relation to what one has "done" in the past, though not necessarily.

 

[DallasApple]

Quite possibly a porn career would lead one to be dissociated...especially in relation to what one has "done" in the past, though not necessarily.

Its more likely ..they dissasociate(which I have heard other porn starts elude to) in order to make the porn in the first place.In other words..they aren't the "real" person inside of them while "performing"..Its a powerful survival techinique in order to live through trauma.

Oh and by the way..another interesting fact of Annabels supposedly healthy sexual appetite and self esteem??The film that she is famous for..only ended due to the fact she was bleeding internally..Yeah..thats real healthy sex.Real feminine "empowerment".

Love

Dallas

 

[cardero]

Its interesting to know as well..I looked up her biography and before she chose to go into pronagraphy she was gang raped as a young woman.(18 years old)

So there you have it..A rape victim turned porn star..Who goes on to break the record for gang sex for money.

So you have proven part of my argument here..MANY porn actors are victims of sexual crimes before they enter the industry.I do not think thats a mere coincidence.

Love

Dallas

Actually I think her more of a survivor, a star, a living legend and I personally respect her as a (sexual) heroine. So in many ways, she proves my points. In the 88 minute documentary SEX: The Annabel Chong Story she tells of her purpose and plans to set this record and becomes visibly upset when they discuss the fact that her record becomes broken by another porn actress. Whether the challenger who defeated her record was previoulsy gang-raped or even sexually abused, I cannot know.

 

[DallasApple]

[Actually I think her more of a survivor, a star, a living legend and I personally respect her as a (sexual) heroine. So in many ways, she proves my points. In the 88 minute documentary SEX: The Annabel Chong Story she tells of her purpose and plans to set this record and becomes visibly upset when they discuss the fact that her record becomes broken by another porn actress. Whether the challenger who defeated her record was previoulsy gang-raped or even sexually abused, I cannot know. /QUOTE]

You are blind...She is by all accounts a psycological mess..with multiple personalities..completely out of control..self mutilating...drug addict..

Even when she is asked if she is concerned she may have contracted aids she proclaims sex is worth losing your life over..as well as she admittedly hates her own body.Who is more than "happy" to be re victimized..chewed up and spit out over and over again due to self loathing.

Even the main stream porn industry is embarrassed that she is being portrayed as some sort of independent sexually liberated woman who has empowered herself ...

She is a complete self destructive basket case.Anything but empowered..she is a puppett on a bunch of sleezeballs strings ....Delusional...sitting duck for those that choose to prey upon her.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Actually I think her more of a survivor, a star, a living legend and I personally respect her as a (sexual) heroine.

I dont consider someone a heroine..who doesnt care if she dies over having sex..In fact its quite pitiful..She cares so little about herself and that is what her views on sex are rooted in.

Love

Dallas

 

[Ozzie]

Its more likely ..they dissasociate(which I have heard other porn starts elude to) in order to make the porn in the first place.In other words..they aren't the "real" person inside of them while "performing"..Its a powerful survival techinique in order to live through trauma.

Oh and by the way..another interesting fact of Annabels supposedly healthy sexual appetite and self esteem??The film that she is famous for..only ended due to the fact she was bleeding internally..Yeah..thats real healthy sex.Real feminine "empowerment".

Love

Dallas

I'm not making any comment here in this thread on what's "healthy" in terms of feminine sexual appetite, self-esteem, or empowerment These terms are not at all synonymous with "degrading".

 

[DallasApple]

Actually I think her more of a survivor, a star, a living legend and I personally respect her as a (sexual) heroine.

Yeah..all the legendary stars appear on the Jerry Springer show for "interviews".

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

I'm not making any comment here in this thread on what's "healthy" in terms of feminine sexual appetite, self-esteem, or empowerment

Well I am..And it certaintly isnt healthy to be willing to litterally die from having sex.I am willing to say that crosses over to the level of unhealthy..And I cant believe I would have to argue with anyone over that.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

O.K..since you "turned me on " to Grace Quek a.k.a Annabell Chong I went ahead and read up on peoples opnions including professional critics and laymens..in response to the documentary on her...

I have read for over 2 hours..Probably 70 differnt opinions and comments on how she "appeared" on that film..

Overwhelmingly...she was described in terms such as...

Intelligent..

Bright..

Naive..

Not in control...

Self destructive...

Self mutilating..

Having eratic behavior..

Unapologetic proud and not needing wanting approval...one minute

Insecure embarraseed ashamed and begging to be accepted..the next..

Under the influence of drugs..

Pathetic and sad...

Depressed...

Babbling and incoherent...

Sado mascocist..

Deluded...

Bi-polar...

Seemingly posessing multiple personalities...

Contradictory..

Messed up...

Mixed up...

Manic...

Exploited...

Distorted..

Trying to justify her own existence..

Haunted...

Mentally unstable...

On the brink of tears or hysteria...

Drowning in self hatred...

Complex...

Chewed up and spit out...

Nervous wreck...

Tragic ...

Rejected...

Blundering...

Emotionally crippled...

Belittled...

Used....

Unsure of her motivations...

Pretensious...

Having a "fixed smile"...

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Oh and irnonically..MANY who commented on the film..(the documentary)..were not expecting a crazy mixed up deluded emotionally crippled bi-polar..they thought they were going to see a film about an "enlightened empowered " woman that felt liberated that she could be a "stud' too..just like a man ...by having sex with over 250 men in 10 hours...

Many of the comments were labled such things as "no fun"...or "depressing and sad"..."grim" "as much fun as being beaten with a stick".. "not as much FUN as you might EXPECT"...

Love

Dallas

 

[Magic Man]

The answer is because it doesn't. Some things degrade us, and some things don't. Why? Because we are the way we are.

Well, that doesn't quite fly with me. I'm sorry, but I generally need a reason to believe something. "Because" hasn't sufficed for me since I was a little kid.

If I get you to agree to strip naked in public, and urinate on yourself for money, you will be degrading yourself regardless of whether or not you got paid, and regardless of whether or not you felt the degradation. And I would be exploiting you whether or not you realized it. I can take pictures of this activity and sell them for money, but the money changes nothing. The people who buy those pictures may not feel as though you were degraded, either, because they routinely do these things to each other, but that still changes nothing. The fact would remain that you had humiliated yourself for money, and most people will be able recognize this instantly. Those who don't very likely have some illness that causes them to deny or ignore the exploitive and humiliating aspects of such an activity. THEY are the anomaly. And they are also proof of the damage done by such activities as pornography. The fact that they may be unaware of that damage does not mitigate that the damage exists.

This doesn't really address the point. Simply stating that a certain action is degrading or humiliating does nothing. The question is why. You say this like you expect me to agree and say that that is enough. I tend to agree that someone stripping naked in public and urinating on themselves is degrading and humiliating, but it all depends on the circumstances. You say "If I get you to agree to...", but I would change it to "If I force you to...".

The point is that it doesn't suffice to give another example of what you consider degradation or humiliation. What you need to do is explain why those situations are degrading and humiliating. Otherwise you're no better than someone saying "You shouldn't kiss that person in public...because I said so".

 

[Magic Man]

BECAUSE of the HARM done dude!!!

If you were "down on your luck" ...and you had to depend on your wife to support you...Are YOU O.K with her being a secretary??(out of need)..And are you O.K with her beign a porn actress (out of need ) equally??

If yes...fine...you are a true to your word...

Love

Dallas

I personally don't want my wife sleeping with anyone else, no. However, there are plenty of people (even right here on RF) who don't mind sharing their partner. My personal feeling is that I don't want to share, but that doesn't mean that's right for everybody. Some people are perfectly capable of sharing partners and continuing to be upstanding people.

Just saying "Because of the harm done, dude" means nothing. That's not a necessary correlation. Porn doesn't negatively affect everyone who participates in it. You might think those people are all worse off for having done it, but that's only your opinion, and not necessarily shared by them or everyone.

 

[Random]

Porn is not inherently degrading, any more than holding Public Office is. Oh wait...