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Is Jesus The Only Way To Heaven?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by JesusIsTheWay, Apr 6, 2005.

?
  1. Yes!

    37 vote(s)
    32.2%
  2. No!

    52 vote(s)
    45.2%
  3. I don't know.

    8 vote(s)
    7.0%
  4. There is no Heaven.

    18 vote(s)
    15.7%
  1. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    No, haven't missed anything. I know the stories.:D I was once going to be a capuchin friar you know.:rolleyes: The point I was tryin to make, which you missed was... I believe the Tao is the only way, because it is THE way. There really is no other way, even if you think you're going a different way. :D But I suppose you only missed that because you haven't studied much on Taoism, so thats ok.

    Oh, and also... a Taoist would believe Jesus was a part of Tao, and thus a part of "the way." But definitely not the only way.
     
  2. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    As do you see Jesus and god as relative. No two people perceive things in the exact same way, you're view is different, and therefore relative. For the second question, you'd have to understand eastern culture and thought. The tao is not an anthropomorphised idea like your god, it doesn't claim anything. Tao is the total encompassment of all things, including your idea of god. Tao is the natural way things happen, it is the first and last cause. I seek to be at one with Tao, for it is in perfect balance between all opposites (yes, Tao is not all good, or all evil. It is perfectly neutral, perfectly peaceful :D). As a Taoist, I do not follow linear thought, I do not focus on the future because it isn't important. You follow Jesus because you believe he is the only way to heaven, yet you don't even know if their is a heaven (you haven't died yet). You only know what was written in a book 1700 years ago. And you don't even know if what is written in that book is divinely inspired (you weren't around back then), you only believe it is. And while that belief is completely respected by me, I feel it causes too much stress and in effect causes inbalance. The present is where our focus should be.
     
  3. JesusIsTheWay

    JesusIsTheWay Member

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    "Only Jesus has the power to save! His name is the only one in all the world that can save anyone." (Acts 4:12 CEV)​
    "There is salvation in no one else! There is no other name in all of Heaven for people to call on to save them." (Acts 4:12 NLT)​
    "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12 NKJV)​
    "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under Heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12 NIV)​
    ^^(Some different versions to look at)^^​
    - David​
     
  4. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    As you believe, and I respect that. Do I think you're right? No, but I respect your opinions. I'm sure you don't think I'm right (it's obvious :D), but do you respect my opinion? Another thing to think about, Tao is not under heaven. In fact, if compared to your god, it would have created him as well. :D
     
  5. JesusIsTheWay

    JesusIsTheWay Member

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    Have you ever expierenced the love of your god? Have you ever felt his presense? Do you know for 100% that your religion is right 100% with no human flaws? Has your god died for you? Does your god care about you? Does your god exist? As in to respecting your opinion. I do, I just believe it to be wrong.
     
  6. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    MV,

    There is truth in EVERY religion... even Paul saw that.

    Unfortunately, MANY who call themselves "Christian" exhibit very little of the love my Lord brought to this earth. I apologise for them!
     
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  7. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Experiencing anything is experiencing Tao. Typing this message is experiencing Tao. Any presence is Tao's presence. Human flaws are also a part of Tao. Tao is life and death, but a taoist doesn't need to be saved, (our flaws are natural, and thus a part of Tao) so there would be no reason Tao would manifest itself in human form to die for us. Your stories don't apply. I don't need Tao to care about me, it would be illogical if a perfect essence showed any human emotion, so Tao isn't in the business of caring. Does the universe exist? If yes, than Tao exists. It's that simple. I know you believe it to be wrong, but it doesn't really make a difference does it? Taoism fits me perfectly, as christian fits you perfectly. We are not the same person, so why should we have the same religion?
     
  8. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    It's true NetDoc, I wish more people realized that. Alot of people may think I don't like christianity, but there is one thing I love about it. And that is LOVE!!! Not many other religions put as much emphasis on it. Except, alot of christians don't act upon that emphasis. Which makes me sad. But I try not to judge religions by its wacky followers. :D They exist in every one.
     
  9. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Hey, hey , hey...

    I am probably the WACKIEST follower of Jesus that there is! :D
     
  10. JesusIsTheWay

    JesusIsTheWay Member

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    Sadly, its true.
     
  11. scitsofreaky

    scitsofreaky Active Member

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    Master Vigil: a quick correction, Jesus does not mean "annointed one," christ does. Technically, everyone that has ever been anointed is a christ.
     
  12. JesusIsTheWay

    JesusIsTheWay Member

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    Human flaws are also a part of Tao.
    So is Tao flawed?

    I don't need Tao to care about me
    Jesus cares about you. And why not? Why not a God that cares about you?

    it would be illogical if a perfect essence showed any human emotion
    Would it? And who said emotions are just human? And if he is a perfect essence, how is human flaws part of him?

    so Tao isn't in the business of caring.
    Honestly, I feel bad for you then. You have a very cold hearted god, who could care less about you while mine has the best in store for me and every other follower of Christ.

    We are not the same person, so why should we have the same religion?
    I'm perfectly aware we are not the same person. What does that have to do with having the same religion? There are many other followers of both our religions that are nothing like us, I'm sure.

    Have a good day/night
    - David
     
  13. roli

    roli Born Again,Spirit Filled

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    Master Vigil, Try not to use your humor,intellect to twist or demean what I'm saying here,but if you ever have a personal encounter with Jesus Christ and that won't come thru logic and reasoning.
    You will not be the same man,i gaurantee,you will not think the same,act the same or even feel the same way as you once did.
    Not that you want that experience,but just to say if it you had a genuine conversion and touch from God, you would radically change inside and out, your views, perception the same inspiration God used on the writer's of the scriptures he uses on those who trust Him.
    You then would understand how the Holy Spirit can influence and inspire a man's life, outside of that you will never understand.
    You may make some comments ridiculing everything I talk about, belittle and generalize the Spirit of God and even group His power,presence influece and experience among other religions and beliefs, but it is not me you offend.
    How can you possibly think for a moment that you earn the right to generalize and opinionize on the Holy Spirit and His ability to touch, change and inspire a man.
    Can you comprehend who or how the Holy Spirit ,( God's manifested presence,power,influence and/or agent) ,changes peoples lives, inspires men to ,write ,speak, pray, teach and for that matter interpret and understand who God truly is.

    If you have ever lived outside your own country as I have,and had a feeling of home sick,feeling alone, peculiar, unfamiliarity, being a stranger etc. you would understand and appreciate what true hope is, as I experienced longing to come home,
    When I say my hope is heaven you have no idea what that means, knowing when you die you will live forever ,that is true and ultimate hope that you will never comprehend unless you expereince God's touch.
    To have hope in today and this life only does not exactly excite me knowing how uncertain our society and mortality is.
     
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  14. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    Sounds a bit like a bouncer...'You don't get in unless you get by me first.':tsk:
     
  15. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    Wouldn't it serve people better to teach them a bit of accountability for their actions rather than sending an innocent man to be nailed to a tree on their behalf? As good parents you wouldn't beat the dog in a bid to avoid punishing your children for their own wrongdoings.
     
  16. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    I don't believe he has done any of that, he has merely expressed his opinion that for him Jesus is not that one stop shop to a happy afterlife, and has explained why he feels that way. How can you possibly think for a moment that MasterVigil hasn't earned the right to follow whatever path he has found to be right for him, regardless of whether it is correct for others or not? All he has done is attempt to explain to you how his beliefs work for him, and why his beliefs do not require a middle man. If you consider his posts to be belittleing and opinionated, for your own sake,please don't enter into any of the debate forums.
    Why are there people who find it so incomprehensible that some of us have some sort of religious conviction that doesn't require a deity that has to give us something in return for our belief?
     
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  17. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    No, Tao is perfect.

    How do you know? Did you hear him say that? He never even wrote anything down. What you read is witness testimony, there is no proof it is accurate.

    Because it is illogical that a perfect essence would have human emotion. God is not human, Tao is not human. There is no need to have a god that cares about me. Why do you need one?

    Remember Tao is the encompassment of everything. So human flaws are apart of IT, but human flaws do not make Tao flawed, flaws are natural and thus a part of it's perfection. Tao's perfection is it's ability to create and destroy without setting store by them.

    I don't need you to feel bad for me. I don't feel bad for you... Even though I think you follow your book blindly. I still don't feel bad for you. It is how you act in this world that matters. Not what book you read, or what god you subscribe to. Those things aren't important. Walk the walk, buddhists are extremely good at this. And they don't even have a god. :D

    Indeed, and their perception of that religion is nothing like ours as well. How can their be only one way then? It's a preposterous idea.

    Thank you, I get to see my sister. She's home from LA. :D
     
  18. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Let's see, which encounter do you want? The last one I had was last semester. I had recurring dreams and visions of him being crucified. And it culminated with a vision of me standing underneath him being crucified as they stuck the spear into his side. His blood spilled out all over my face. As I came to, I threw up. Is that close enough of an encounter for ya?

    I was once the changed man you speak of. I was all ready for the capuchin formation program. But another encounter changed me again, and I feel for the better. I met and became one with the spirits of the universe. And I tell you, once you have a personal encounter with an oak tree spirit, you will not think, or act the same either. You finally realize that what is written in the book is wonderful, but it isn't fact. You realize that words don't really cut it. They are just symbols that stand for something else, but can never come close. I wish I could allow you to experience the spirit world as I have, but that is impossible. As I'm sure you wish you could allow me to experience your god as you have. But that is also impossible. Our own eyes are ours alone, it is impossible for another to use them the way you do. So why even try? All religions are members of goodness. That is all that matters. If someone does good, is humble, and compassionate. That is all that matters. Why worry and fight over terms that are simply symbols for something we can't understand? Too much stress is put on them. Stop talking, and start acting.
     
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  19. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    Which religions are on the playing field with this speculation? I know we have Christianity and Islam....I am unsure about the others though...To really look at the question would it not be prudent to look at those faiths that have a heaven?

    Jesusistheway I am wondering at this point...say you are correct. Jesus is the only way into heaven. Jesus is not here....how does one get to heaven in the absense of one's savior? People die everday on earth...Christians..holy ones whose accepting of Christ meets the critera for everlasting life..but if Jesus is an essential tool for their asention is his presence is required how is this possible if his presense is not required than why ?

    In addition Jesus was born just over 2ooo years ago. Man as a race is much older even in the Bible. did the men who had God in their hearts make the ascention into the kindom of God and if so than they did so without Jesus. Why could the men of old ascend and the men after Jesus not?

    As I am understanding it Jesus came to earth to die for man's sins. In your religion one of the greatest sins is non-belief in Jesus. But understand that it is still a sin and if Jesus died for all of man's sins than didn't he die for man's sin of non-belief too?
     
  20. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Yes, if this was a fairy story we might have a different ending, but *we* did not write the story, God did.

    We have separated ourselves from God by our sinful nature and no matter how hard we try, we will never be completely sinless. It is not possible because we are human. God provided the solution through Christ.

    We all have the choice to believe it....or judge God as incompetent because that's not the way *we* would do it and choose not to believe in Him. I choose to believe.
     
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