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Is Jesus God

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Murtaza, May 13, 2006.

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  1. Murtaza

    Murtaza New Member

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    video.google. com/videosearch?q=deedat+is+jesus+god

    i put some space between "google" and ".com" because i am not allowed to post links
    please put the together to get the link


    i would just recommend that christians who believe Jesus is God should watch those videos.

    The fact that Jesus is not God is pretty common sense. You believe that God came out of a waman's private parts covered in filthy blood and other disgusting fluids. The fact that you take God to be so low is quite disgusting in my opinion.

    Imagine what must be going through Mary's mind when she was giving birth to Jesus. Did she think she was giving birth to her God?
    Did she think she was wiping her God's backside everytime Jesus went to the toilet as a baby? (the God she was supposed to worship)

    On the 8th day after Jesus was born did the priest who was circumcising him think that he was cutting his God's penis?

    In many parts of the bible Jesus is always asking for God's help? For the Father's help. Now Jesus being God wouldn't need to be asking someone else for help. Jesus was talking to God. You either say there is more than 1 God or you accept jesus is just a man of God
     
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  2. ΩRôghênΩ

    ΩRôghênΩ Disciple of Light

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    and here comes another christian basher. you cant even spell right let alone back up your reasoning. isnt what you said against the rules. because from my knowledge Rf is for religious tolerance and understanding instead of saying that i would go so low. no, i believe god became man so that people could understand god better from a viewpoint (man) they were more knowledgeable with, therefore having the ability to attain salvation and eternal light.
     
  3. ΩRôghênΩ

    ΩRôghênΩ Disciple of Light

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    Also your link is invalid
     
  4. ΩRôghênΩ

    ΩRôghênΩ Disciple of Light

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    first of all i would have no problem doing those things to his body. that body was not god, just his shell. the true god was wthin him. again he was incarnation of god, and a seperate yet same being from god. that is why he ahad a sperate concioussness therefore successfully prayed to god his father. 3 different types of one god!
     
  5. ΩRôghênΩ

    ΩRôghênΩ Disciple of Light

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    and yes she did think she was giving birth to her god
     
  6. ΩRôghênΩ

    ΩRôghênΩ Disciple of Light

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    that preist was cutting his empty shell
     
  7. d.

    d. _______

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    so your parents had 'that talk' with you, huh?
     
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  8. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    was that not the point of Jesus.... to be as low as the common man? i'm sure him washing the feet of his friends symbolised him as being the servant of mankind....
    probably the same as every other mother...... "ouch"

    yes
    i don't know how informed that priest was.... but probably, yes
    i personally agree with you, i think that whiles Jesus was on earth he did not have divine power in himself, but rather, he was so loved by his heavenly father that he had only to ask for it (what ever it may be) to be done.

    what is the point you are trying to make?
     
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  9. Karl R

    Karl R Active Member

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    Depending how you interpret the statements Jesus made, you could interpret them as saying he was god, or you could interpret them as not saying that. It depends whether Jesus was speaking literally or metaphorically at a couple critical points, and we really don't have any way to be 100% certain which is the case.

    It's pretty obvious that Jesus was special, more-so than prophets that performed miracles before him. "Special" includes the possibility of Jesus being god incarnate among us. I'm certainly not going to discount that possibility.

    The entire concept behind god becoming man is that god personally had the same human experience as each of us. And that means going through all the unpleasant, disgusting and painful experiences of life. Being born, having diarrhea, vomiting, passing gas....

    You see these things as disgusting. I see it as kind of amazing that god could know from personal experience what it's like to pass gas at an awkward moment.

    She was giving natural childbirth. I imagine the pain was the overwhelming thought on her mind.

    I generally try to avoid speculating on what people are thinking, particularly complete strangers.

    However, the incident involving Jesus at the temple as a child leads me to believe that Mary and Joseph tended to see Jesus more as their child than as being something truly special.

    If god wanted to understand what being human is all about, god would have to end up in situations where asking for help was necessary. If Jesus never had to ask for help, it would be a little tough for him to relate to my life.

    Sheesh. I talk to myself. And I'm not nearly as complex as god.

    God's a bit more than human. If you want to begin to understand god, you'll need to step outside your human perspective. You still won't understand god, but you'll begin to understand why you don't understand god.
     
  10. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I am a Christian. I understand where you are coming from and agree with the basic premise behind what you have said. Regardless of that fact, I find your way of expressing your feelings highly offensive and crude. Had you gone about presenting your perspective in a less banal way, I might have even stood up in your defense. As it is, I think I'll just let the other Christians throw you to the lions.
     
  11. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    your "link" doesn't work.
    Yes, that is a common belief.... In fact, most folks who don't proclaim to be Christians would agree with you ;)
    I don't "take God to be so low". Insead, I thank God for Loving me so much that He would lower Himself to my level.

    Yes, most of us Christians do in fact believe that God lowered Himself to become fully man, so that He would experience all of the experiences and emotions of people, including being born of a woman in blood and fluids and filth, circumcision, growing up, earning a living, being tempted, condemned, beaten, humiliated and finally killed. He also did it at a time in human history that was pretty brutal.
    She knew:
    "Luk 1:30 And the angel said to her, Do not fear, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
    31 And behold! You shall conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS.
    32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest. And the Lord God shall give Him the throne of His father David.
    33 And He shall reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
    34 Then Mary said to the angel, How shall this be, since I do not know a man?
    35 And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you. Therefore also that Holy One which will be born of you shall be called Son of God.
    36 And behold, your cousin Elizabeth also conceived a son in her old age. And this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
    37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
    38 And Mary said, Behold the servant of the Lord. Let it be to me according to your word. And the angel departed from her."
    Yes. Christians believe Jesus is God. But while He was here on earth, He was also fully man with God as His Father. So yes, He talked to God, His Father. Back to that concept of being fully man... While He could have helped Himself and did use God's powers to perform miracles, by being man, He still prayed to God the Father. In Matthew 26:36-46, His prayer in the garden before He was to be crucified, Jesus actually asked 3 times to be delivered from that fate ("...O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me...). But each time, acknowledged that this was the Plan and that it had to go through ("...Yet not as I will, but as You will.")
    I say neither. I say God is one God and that Jesus, the Father and the Spirit are that one God (and I achnowledge that this concept is pretty much impossible to say in a way that doesn't sound contradictory, but that's a debate for another thread ;)
     
  12. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    So, Snowbear, would I be correct in stating that you believe that the Father and the Son are both the same individual, that they are not in any way distinct from one another and that it would be just as correct to say that Mary gave birth to the Father as it would be to say she gave birth to the Son? (Not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to understand your point of view -- specifically within the framework of the OP).
     
  13. finalfrogo

    finalfrogo Well-Known Member

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    You obviously have a very immature view on birth and circumcision. Neither are digusting: birth is a natural event, and circumcision is a sacred event. Some people believe that Jesus became divine just before his ministry--when he went into the wilderness for 40 days. A little thing called the Doctrine of Incarnation: Jesus was 100% man, and 100% God. To be 100% man, he had to be born, and since he was Jewish, he had to be circumcized.

    And there are also many parts in the Bible that suggest the divinity of Jesus. Again I must mention the Doctrine of Incarnation, which easily explains this. As for asking the Father for help, I will mention anther doctrine: the Trinity.
     
  14. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    No, you would not be correct at all. I know you and your church don't believe in this concept the way I do. That's your right. Just as I don't try to twist your words to say something different than you intended, please don't do that to mine.

    That said, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this was not your intention and try to restate it...

    My belief: Mary gave birth to Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Son of the Father.
    They are as distinct as they are the same.
     
  15. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Thanks. That makes more sense now. And thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I was not trying to twist your words. I was just trying to understand.
     
  16. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    In the Bible there is a parable of Jesus -- the parable of the leaven. Jesus says that the kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman hid in a lump of dough. she kneaded the dough until the leaven was spread throughout.

    Leaven, in the ancient Middle East was not the same as baker's yeast. it was unclean. That's the way Jesus understood it and that's the way his audience understood it. so, basically, what Jesus is saying is that the bread became dirty -- the Word became flesh: God became dirty and lived among us.

    It's not that we demean God. The line of thinking here is that God, by becoming one of us, lifts us. Parables always take a common thing and reverse it. Holy God becomes profane human. Profane humanity becomes holy.
     
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  17. Ody

    Ody Well-Known Member

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  18. Ody

    Ody Well-Known Member

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    These are reasons I cannot believe Jesus to be G-d


    PAUL NEVER KNEW JESUS PERSONALLY! IT ALL CAME TO HIM IN A DREAM!

    ALL THE GOSPELS CONTRADICT AT CERTAIN SMALL POINTS!

    JESUS NEVER DIRECTLY CLAIMED IN CLEAR CONCISE WORDING TO BE G-D!

    MOSHIACH IS SUPPOSED TO BE OF KING DAVIDS LINE, BUT JESUS IS FROM KING DAVIDS LINE! THROUGH HIS STEPFATHER, JOSEPH, WHO DID NOT CONCEIVE HIM!
     
  19. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    If you guys haven't watched the video you should. Very good debates. There were quite a number of Christians present at the Muslim conferance.
     
  20. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    Yes He did:
    John 10:24 Then the Jews encircled Him and said to Him, How long do you make us doubt? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.
    25 Jesus answered them, I told you and you did not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.
    26 But you did not believe because you are not of My sheep. As I said to you,
    27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
    28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
    29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
    30 I and the Father are one!
    31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
    32 Jesus answered them, I have shown you many good works from My Father; for which of these do you stone Me?
    33 The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because you, being a man, make yourself God.
    34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, "I said, You are gods?"
    35 If He called those gods with whom the Word of God was, and the Scripture cannot be broken,
    36 do you say of Him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, You blaspheme, because I said, I am the Son of God?
    37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me.
    38 But if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works so that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.

     
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