That's a separate discussion ... here... http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/dharmic-religions-dir/146241-hinduism-universal-religion-6.html
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Is Islam a universal religion.
- Thread starter Vinayaka
- Start date
That's a separate discussion ... here... http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/dharmic-religions-dir/146241-hinduism-universal-religion-6.html
"Whosoever worship Me through whatsoever path, I verily accept and bless them in that way. Men everywhere follow My path."
"Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend."
"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear."
That could have been spoken by any number of deities or manifestations of God, any time, any place to anyone.
It seems some people understand universal as loose or without a distinct set of concepts and principals. Islam is a religion, it has a creed and a group of definitive teachings. The thing is how to create a balance between keeping these definitive views that give Islam its uniqueness and on the other hand giving a free space for differences. Naturally the different environments, times, places, circumstances and individual tastes require that free space.
There are those who accept those fixed Islamic principles and there are who don't.
Now does Islam take into consideration that Chinese Muslims are going to be different from say Egyptian Muslims, from European Muslims? Does Islam take into consideration that Muslims who live in 2013 are different from Muslims who lived 1400 years ago? Does Islam take into consideration that Muslims who live in the same city, in the same neighborhood, in the same house can be different?
In my belief the answer to all of them is yes.
Taking one of Odion examples:
"The opposition to the consumption of pork, alcohol, and even blood, though I can understand the opposition of it, in many places these are sustenance."
Being a Muslim dictates that you should avoid pork consumption when there are alternatives. But if it's a matter of survival and pork is your only way to survive, it becomes required, Islamically speaking. So in this case, the different circumstances are taken into consideration and without giving up the Islamic identity.
I believe this is one aspect of universality of Islam. You can't actually achieve universality without definite drawing lines. You can't achieve universality if you can't point out to this man in India and say "he is a Muslim", that one in Morocco and say "this is Muslim" or that other one in USA and recognize him as Muslim or who lived in the 7th century or in 21st century and distinguish them Muslims. Being Muslim makes the person unique and different from followers of other faiths and beliefs. This uniqueness regardless wherever or whenever you are, achieve universality. At the same time, it appreciates individuality and uniqueness among its followers. It's a matter of balance.
Another level of universality of Islam is that it's for all creatures. Starting from the tiniest rocks to bacteria to those higher complicated beings "humans"; regardless of their ethnicity, color, gender, etc. Every thing in this universe belong to Allah, submit to Him and in the case of human beings we come to Him voluntarily.The harmony and unity of the Muslim not only with his brothers and sisters, but also with the rest of the universe; animals, insects, plants, inanimate things, the oceans, the sun, the Milky Way and all other things - is another aspect of universality of Islam. The Muslim is in unity with the universe in that sense. In the sense that all has one source, one direction, worship the same Creator each in its unique way.
Viewing man as a unique and different creature from the rest of the creation serves the notion of universality as well. Because we have this unique thing called intellect, that thing called free will, we are treated differently. We come to God by our want not through coercion. This different treatment is a part of Islam's universality.
There are those who accept those fixed Islamic principles and there are who don't.
Now does Islam take into consideration that Chinese Muslims are going to be different from say Egyptian Muslims, from European Muslims? Does Islam take into consideration that Muslims who live in 2013 are different from Muslims who lived 1400 years ago? Does Islam take into consideration that Muslims who live in the same city, in the same neighborhood, in the same house can be different?
In my belief the answer to all of them is yes.
Taking one of Odion examples:
"The opposition to the consumption of pork, alcohol, and even blood, though I can understand the opposition of it, in many places these are sustenance."
Being a Muslim dictates that you should avoid pork consumption when there are alternatives. But if it's a matter of survival and pork is your only way to survive, it becomes required, Islamically speaking. So in this case, the different circumstances are taken into consideration and without giving up the Islamic identity.
I believe this is one aspect of universality of Islam. You can't actually achieve universality without definite drawing lines. You can't achieve universality if you can't point out to this man in India and say "he is a Muslim", that one in Morocco and say "this is Muslim" or that other one in USA and recognize him as Muslim or who lived in the 7th century or in 21st century and distinguish them Muslims. Being Muslim makes the person unique and different from followers of other faiths and beliefs. This uniqueness regardless wherever or whenever you are, achieve universality. At the same time, it appreciates individuality and uniqueness among its followers. It's a matter of balance.
Another level of universality of Islam is that it's for all creatures. Starting from the tiniest rocks to bacteria to those higher complicated beings "humans"; regardless of their ethnicity, color, gender, etc. Every thing in this universe belong to Allah, submit to Him and in the case of human beings we come to Him voluntarily.The harmony and unity of the Muslim not only with his brothers and sisters, but also with the rest of the universe; animals, insects, plants, inanimate things, the oceans, the sun, the Milky Way and all other things - is another aspect of universality of Islam. The Muslim is in unity with the universe in that sense. In the sense that all has one source, one direction, worship the same Creator each in its unique way.
Viewing man as a unique and different creature from the rest of the creation serves the notion of universality as well. Because we have this unique thing called intellect, that thing called free will, we are treated differently. We come to God by our want not through coercion. This different treatment is a part of Islam's universality.
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JustWondering
Jerk
The highlighted part is what bothers me. What does the Quran say about non-belivers?
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I joined Sanatana Dharma just for that reason actually after my departure from Islam
. It was not for me and the idea of "who is a Hindu and who is not" kept coming up and I have always been deemed the non-Hindu. I am far to Left of the Right hand Path and far to Right for the Left hand Path but nor am I in between.I transcend even my own intellect at times
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Many Muslims treat non-believers well as I did. But I can assure you that you do not wish to know what the Qur'an says about non-believers but there are nicer articles in the ahadith.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
.... we won't bring up treatment of homosexuals though will we?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
They can co-exist and live peacefully.
But what about the question I made in post #78?
F0uad
Well-Known Member
I don't belief so however i do belief that the Quran is in pure Arabic language and should remain in Arabic this is due the fact that Islam existed prior to Muhammed Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam, Ishmeal(ra) or Ibrahim(ra) according to the Quran. I also don't belief that finalized (Islam) adopted the Arabic culture because the culture in that time contradicted many things of Islam you can say in a way that Islam is a culture itself.Very familiar that Arabs make a small portion of Muslims but it is ayat 2 in Surat Yusuf I believe or it is in as-Zukh'ruf. But is mentions the Qur'an being in the Arabic of its era and in Surat Yunus ayat 32 or 47 (working on memory power here
I am not debating authenticity here but I am just stating that Islam and the Qur'an is purely Arabic in origin, revelation and culture and one cannot expect god to be the destroyer of culture if one believes in Surat al Ma'idah ayat 48.
I think the verse you are talking about is were it says that the Arabic of the Quran is pure, this pure can either been seen as being the pure form of the Arabic origins or in a other context that speaks about that present time when it was revealed as Ibn Kathir mentions in hes Tasfir, if you want i can direct you to a post i made earlier clarifying this.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
They are not rejected, there end ''afterlife'' is just not the same place as the ''Muslims/believers''. In this life all Muslims should respect all other beings (creatures of god) and treat them with dignity, respect and justice even when you hate them yes even non-believers so you are not rejected, you are just rejected in heaven (what you don't belief to exist) that's all.
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Uh, sorry... but that means that Islam is not only not an universal religion in any meaningful sense, but also a deeply flawed one. At least until and unless it acknowledges and corrects that major doctrinary flaw.
It is not that I demand the afterlife to be somehow the same for both believers and unbelievers; it is that it does not really make sense if it is not.
A heaven that discriminates by belief is not one worth attaining anyway. All the same, yours is a curious if not all-out contradictory statement. It implies odd, unrealistic attributes to the distinction between believers and unbelievers. It is, flat out, impossible and illogical.
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arthra
Baha'i
All religions have aspects that appeal to humanity and are universal .. All religions also have unique characteristics about them.
Islam in my view is a "universal religion"..in it's spiritual teachings it is universal. It's also true that there are universal aspects in other religions as well..
Islam in my view is a "universal religion"..in it's spiritual teachings it is universal. It's also true that there are universal aspects in other religions as well..
Foxfire
It's all about the Light
Islam isn't even a religion. It is ideology at its worst with regards to human rights.
I'm with Nonie Darwish, an ex-Muslim:
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Please be so kind as to present your definition of "religion".
Despite its insistence on the worship of God, and that matter of teachings about the afterlife?
I would like to know if you see those as attributes that an universal religion might have, and how that would work.
A religion will of course involve an ideology. That makes it no less of a religion.
Just when I thought I could get through the day without hard liquor, you have to say that.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
We don't hate Atheists or Agnostics. They deny Word of Revelation al-right but they uphold reason and rationality; two of the three sources of human knowledge, so dear to a truthful believer. We don't judge them; to do absolute judgement is an attribute of the Lord of the Day of Judgement, and that would be in the afterlife, I agree with FOuad here. They are with us fighting against mythical concepts and superstitions.
Just for non-believing there is no retribution in this world; unless one becomes a hardened enemy additionally with non-believing.
Atheists or Agnostics are an important segment of humans though they claim to have no religion as I understand; yet we have all love and sympathy with them; they could join the truthful religion as and when they are convinced heart and soul; the door is open to them as it is to anybody else.
This way the universality of the truthful religion remains intact, in my opinion.
That is what I believe sincerely; others could differ with me; no compulsion.
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illykitty
RF's pet cat
As I understand it, that's not the problem... If I'm not wrong a universalistic religion would include everyone being "saved" (granted paradise, nirvana or whatever else equivalent) either straight away or in some time.
In traditional Islam, there are some people who are in Hell eternally... So that's not universal. I don't know about shia and sufi but iirc ahmadiyya are universalistic.