Is God Observable?

[Fool]

I apologize, but this is not making any sense to me.

no apology necessary but thank you for your tactful response.

basically panpsychism

 

[Milton Platt]

eternal is endless


infinite is limitless


anything with a beginning has an end and vice versa. anything limitelles, endless, infinite, eternal has no beginning, or ending.

Get a grip.........infinite does not necessarily refer to time. It could refer to absolutely anything. Infinite space, infinite knowledge, etc. Eternal applies only to time.

 

[Milton Platt]

There are no 'concrete' words that can be used to describe G-d. G-d has no physical form.

How do you know this, an why does that preclude concrete definitions???

It is a special thing. There is nothing else that we humans know of that is infinite and eternal. Since there is only One G-d, it is a specific G-d.

How do you know this???

 

[Milton Platt]

I don't understand your question.

G-d can't be defined by human language, eternity and infinity are beyond our human comprehension. We can only say what G-d isn't.

so you are saying you have absolutely no comprehension of your god, yet you comprehend that it exists?

 

[Milton Platt]

actually you're term for love is not necessarily the way it was conveyed 2000+ years ago.

love is not outside of nature, or the nature of self awareness.

Love was a human emotion 2,000 years ago, I am sure. It may have been conveyed using a different word in a different language, but it would be fundamentally the same thing being described. You are confusing the map for the place, so to speak. Changing the word, or the way it was conveyed, does not change the thing.

 

[Fool]

Get a grip.........infinite does not necessarily refer to time. It could refer to absolutely anything. Infinite space, infinite knowledge, etc. Eternal applies only to time.

sorry but eternal, absolute, everlasting, and et al are synonyms. no one but you stated anything about time.

eternal

absolute etymology of absolute

infinite

everlasting

 

[Milton Platt]

sorry but eternal, absolute, everlasting, and et al are synonyms. no one but you stated anything about time.

eternal

absolute etymology of absolute

infinite

everlasting

Not exactly. Something that is stated to be eternal is infinite in it's existence. Something can be infinite in size and not last for an eterity, therefore it is not eternal.

 

[Fool]

Not exactly. Something that is stated to be eternal is infinite in it's existence. Something can be infinite in size and not last for an eterity, therefore it is not eternal.

and again never stated anything about space vs time. however time and space are immeasurable in eternal or infinite context. they aren't relevant. there is just here and now; which is everywhere and at all times. at the quantum level its called spooky action at a distance

 

[Akivah]

For example? Any documentation? When did you observe god?

I meant that we can observe G-d's effects. It is impossible to observe G-d Himself.

 

[Akivah]

How do you know this???

It's mathematical and a simple definition of infinity. There are no bounds to infinity.

 

[Akivah]

so you are saying you have absolutely no comprehension of your god, yet you comprehend that it exists?

Absolutely.

I can't define G-d Himself. Torah descriptions of G-d are Eternal, Almighty, and Infinite. And Torah tells us multiple times that G-d has no physical form.

However, despite having no physical description of G-d, G-d did many things for our benefit. He Created the Universe, He gave us Torah, He led us to the promised land, He appointed us to be a Nation of Priests, etc.

From the questions I've got here, the lack of a physical description is impossible for some posters to comprehend. Indeed throughout history, humans will easily worship idols. But from my POV, it is expected. Our G-d is not contained within a block of wood or a physical body, but G-d has performed many miracles for us and the world. I recognize and appreciate G-d's generosity.

 

[Milton Platt]

I meant that we can observe G-d's effects. It is impossible to observe G-d Himself.

Observing something is the easy part, what scientific method would you suggest that would then demonstrate that the observed thing was caused by a god? Prayer has been measured and shown not to work. What phenomenon did you have in mind?

 

[Milton Platt]

Absolutely.

I can't define G-d Himself. Torah descriptions of G-d are Eternal, Almighty, and Infinite. And Torah tells us multiple times that G-d has no physical form.

However, despite having no physical description of G-d, G-d did many things for our benefit. He Created the Universe, He gave us Torah, He led us to the promised land, He appointed us to be a Nation of Priests, etc.

From the questions I've got here, the lack of a physical description is impossible for some posters to comprehend. Indeed throughout history, humans will easily worship idols. But from my POV, it is expected. Our G-d is not contained within a block of wood or a physical body, but G-d has performed many miracles for us and the world. I recognize and appreciate G-d's generosity.

Not looking for physical description, necessarily. The things you listed as the god having done for you are assertions. How do you demonstrate that anything at all was done by your god?

What is your definition of a miracle, and how do you separate miracles from rare or simply unexplained events?

 

[Fool]

Observing something is the easy part, what scientific method would you suggest that would then demonstrate that the observed thing was caused by a god? Prayer has been measured and shown not to work. What phenomenon did you have in mind?

the results of something is not necessarily the activator of something. so if the brain shows a result doesn't mean the brain necessarily caused the action. it just shows the brain registered it. like any transceiver would that picks up electromagnetic impulses.

Brain makes decisions before you even know it : Nature News


zombie nation

 

[Milton Platt]

the results of something is not necessarily the activator of something. so if the brain shows a result doesn't mean the brain necessarily caused the action. it just shows the brain registered it. like any transceiver would that picks up electromagnetic impulses.

Brain makes decisions before you even know it : Nature News


zombie nation

That does not answer the question of how do we measure your god's interaction with reality. If you cannot measure any interaction, then it is safe to assume that there is no interaction.
A god that does not measurably interact with reality is the equivalent of a god that does not exist....neither has any impact on reality and therefore irrelevant.

 

[Fool]

That does not answer the question of how do we measure your god's interaction with reality. If you cannot measure any interaction, then it is safe to assume that there is no interaction.
A god that does not measurably interact with reality is the equivalent of a god that does not exist....neither has any impact on reality and therefore irrelevant.

you can't measure what is immeasurable, or can't control. such is the paradox of science. and science works all the time with reverse engineering on small phenomena leading to more and more questions. science can't measure the universe with any precision.

love is a conscious action. it exists. it can be observed. just like consciousness once was a taboo subject and discipline of higher learning. .

cut out the bullsh!tting.

 

[Milton Platt]

you can't measure what is immeasurable, or can't control. such is the paradox of science. and science works all the time with reverse engineering on small phenomena leading to more and more questions. science can't measure the universe with any precision.

cut out the bullsh!tting.[/QUOTE

How is it bullsh!tting to ask a simple question and expect an answer instead of an evasion?

I didn't mention anything about precisely measuring a universe. I didn't mention anything about measuring a deity, either.

Didn't you say things can be measured by their effects on other things? That is what am addressing. So you take a measurement of a phenomenon.....now, how do you verify the phenomenon was caused by a god? It's a simple, straightforward question. If you cannot connect the phenomenon to a god, then there is no reason to assume it was done by a god.




So if you can't measure or quantify something, how do you verify it's existence?

 

[Fool]

because you are asking for something that doesn't have a physical form but does have a physical effect. like electricity or gravity isn't observable but one can see its effect by touching electricity and by falling from a cliff.

love changes things dramatically and not just at an individual level but on a group level too. i'm not talking about just humans either. is the pear research has shown, people can have an electromagnetic effect on things from a distance.

now how about you provide us with the cause of gravity? or maybe the cause of electro-magnetism? take your pick, we'll wait for you to prove that both exist as a cause or effect.

 

[Milton Platt]

because you are asking for something that doesn't have a physical form but does have a physical effect. like electricity or gravity isn't observable but one can see its effect by touching electricity and by falling from a cliff.

love changes things dramatically and not just at an individual level but on a group level too. i'm not talking about just humans either. is the pear research has shown, people can have an electromagnetic effect on things from a distance.

let me try this again....Does your god have any measurable effect on reality at all, and how do we detect and measure it? Can you detect your god's interaction with reality or not??? If you are saying we cannot detect your god, and cannot detect any effect of your god in the natural world, then your god is the equivalent of a non-existent god. A god that does not effect reality is irrelevant. This is not that hard. We can detect, or we cannot detect.

We can measure the effect of gravity, or electricity. How do we do that for your god?

 

[Fool]

let me try this again....Does your god have any measurable effect on reality at all, and how do we detect and measure it? Can you detect your god's interaction with reality or not??? If you are saying we cannot detect your god, and cannot detect any effect of your god in the natural world, then your god is the equivalent of a non-existent god. A god that does not effect reality is irrelevant. This is not that hard. We can detect, or we cannot detect.

We can measure the effect of gravity, or electricity. How do we do that for your god?

yes, you were just shown. it isn't my god. love isn't unique to a person, really isn't unique to a species.

again science has shown that consciousness; has an electromagnetic effect on things at a distance. not just machines that can register electro-magnetic changes but also other humans, even inter-species.