Is God Observable?

[Fool]

There is no God to even produce any effect.

if god is love, then there is. what if Love is the ultimate reality of consciousness? isn't love holistic? doesn't love unite two seemingly separate things together? and the two shall become ONE?

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

 

[Fool]

Well, theists usually are careful to define their god in a way that makes direct observation impossible. Otherwise, they would have to explain why he is absent from realty.

That is why "outside of space amd time" is always a convenient place to put him. They seem to forget that time is a requirement for existence. Something cannot exist at no time and be said to exist at all.
If the deity does not exist for a time, then saying he is eternal is nonsensical. If he has existed for an eternity, then they are expressing his existence with time as an element of that existence.

Of couse, if the supernatural has any effect on the natural, then those effects should be measurable, such as suspending the known laws of physics to perform a miracle, or prayer causing healing, for instance. So far, all attempts have shown there is no effect. In the case of healing, there may be a small placebo effect, but nothing outside of that range.

can you show me an image of love vs it's action? isn't love a mental/spiritual state that can only be observed by expressing?

like the mind, what does a mind look like? or do we know the focus of a mind by it's actions?

 

[Fool]

Hi Fool,



The problem with thinking God is perceptible through God's presumed effects on other things is that every example of this that I've seen is more simply and soundly explainable as a natural phenomenon. The analogies of presumably formless causes and effects given by a few posters in this thread were: the effects of love, of consciousness, of wind upon trees, and the mind upon one's actions. Every single one of these is explainable as a natural phenomenon, however: love, consciousness, and the mind all are naturally caused by neural activity, while wind is a natural phenomenon.

If someone can think of a single example of an effect that must necessarily be attributable to a deity such as God, then perhaps we can begin to reasonably entertain the idea. Until then, we're just arbitrarily attributing imagined causes to phenomena as far as we can factually discern.

i wasn't speaking of a deity apart from self.

god is natural. even elephants, dolphins are capable of some form of love. there is familial love and then there is love that transcends familialism. there have been seen instance of interspecies friendships across the spectrum.

 

[Fool]

G-d is not physically observable to us humans because G-d has no form and can't take a form.

Love doesn't take an exact form. It does take an action though. Its like the spirit moving on water.

 

[Fool]

Is God Observable?

God/Brahman to me is the One consciousness that pervades everything. Consciousness can not be observed through our physical senses of course. God can not be observed but only experienced.

are experiences observable?

 

[Fool]

Sorry, you cannot simply assert god is the equivalent of a human emotion and then say be measuring that you are measuring god. You still would have to prove that the thing you are measuring is god, which you haven't. You may as well measure a tree and rhen call it a god.

love is not an exclusive human emotion if it can be observed in other species that have been around for millions of years..

 

[George-ananda]

are experiences observable?

Perhaps an internal observation.

 

[Fool]

One does notfollow from the other.

Infinite and eternal are synonyms.


Infinite

 

[Twilight Hue]

if god is love, then there is. what if Love is the ultimate reality of consciousness? isn't love holistic? doesn't love unite two seemingly separate things together? and the two shall become ONE?

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

There's nothing universally pervasive about love. Its a wonderful feeling for sure, a good thing, but dosent/cannot apply with the majority of the universe in the scope and context some people make it out to be.

 

[Milton Platt]

if god is love, then there is. what if Love is the ultimate reality of consciousness? isn't love holistic? doesn't love unite two seemingly separate things together? and the two shall become ONE?

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

Your Bible quote does not count as evidence for the existence of a god anymore than a quote from the religious book of any other religion.

Love is a label we use to describe a human emotion and it means many different things to different people.

If you desire to argue that the dejty you have in mind is merely an emotion, please lay out that argument.

 

[Milton Platt]

love is not an exclusive human emotion if it can be observed in other species that have been around for millions of years..

Granted. Didn't want to go off on a long discusion over how to measure love in various species. Just was trying to kerp it simple. But is it love, or instinct, or is there some self serving mechanism involved it? How do you define love as opposed to compassion or empathy?
How do you scientifically differentiate from those in an animal?

 

[Fool]

There's nothing universally pervasive about love. Its a wonderful feeling for sure, a good thing, but dosent/cannot apply with the majority of the universe in the scope and context some people make it out to be.

hmmmmm

hate divides and destroys. Love is entanglement


Quantum Systems Synchronize Through Self-Organization

 

[Fool]

Granted. Didn't want to go off on a long discusion over how to measure love in various species. Just was trying to kerp it simple. But is it love, or instinct, or is there some self serving mechanism involved it? How do you define love as opposed to compassion or empathy?
How do you scientifically differentiate from those in an animal?

love is like belief. how do you test a theory and how many times before you accept the theory?

compassion and empathy are love; otherwise its hate


there is sympathy; which is love

and

there is apathy; which is hate, or indifference.

 

[Fool]

Perhaps an internal observation.

isn't that what mindfulness is about? remembering to see something positive in something negative? to learn something of the power of love to overcome, transcend?

Rev 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

isn't that what a person aspires to on their journey in most belief systems?

 

[Murad]

If God is an actual thing, then can thing be observed given the lack of a form but not it's energy?



IMO yes because actions can be observed by their effects upon other things. Like the wind upon the leaves of a tree, or a vane. Or like a mind upon the course of someone's actions towards another.

He is the Lord, the One and Only; the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.

 

[crowfeather]

Everything in nature is observable proof of God.
Everything in humanity is observable proof of God's absence.
Any human may become observable proof of God,
but most choose not to be.

 

[Milton Platt]

can you show me an image of love vs it's action? isn't love a mental/spiritual state that can only be observed by expressing?

like the mind, what does a mind look like? or do we know the focus of a mind by it's actions?

It is nonsensical to ask for an image of an emotion. Love, hate, jealousy, anger, and such are melely words to desctibe feelings caused by a variety of stimuli on the brain.

What does that fact have to do with god being an emotion? If you want to argue he is an emotion, you might just as well argue for any of the emotions. until you can substantiate your claim, it is nothing but wild speculation. Perhaps that is what you intended the thread to be. And that's okay. I kind of assumed you wanted the assertion critiqued and challenged.

Can you offer any sort of reasonably coherent argument for such a view rather than ask off the wall questions?

 

[Milton Platt]

Everything in nature is observable proof of God.
Everything in humanity is observable proof of God's absence.
Any human may become observable proof of God,
but most choose not to be.

Provide evidence for the assertions. What in nature that we have come to understand has been demonstrated to not be of natural origin and/or not work be natural means?

 

[Fool]

It is nonsensical to ask for an image of an emotion. Love, hate, jealousy, anger, and such are melely words to desctibe feelings caused by a variety of stimuli on the brain.

What does that fact have to do with god being an emotion? If you want to argue he is an emotion, you might just as well argue for any of the emotions. until you can substantiate your claim, it is nothing but wild speculation. Perhaps that is what you intended the thread to be. And that's okay. I kind of assumed you wanted the assertion critiqued and challenged.

Can you offer any sort of reasonably coherent argument for such a view rather than ask off the wall questions?

so do we observe the image of anything, or the actions of a thing in theory? in reality?

we observe the action of a thing. we don't observe the form of a thing because things can evolve in form.

god is a verb. languages evolve too

Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)


And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

 

[Milton Platt]

i wasn't speaking of a deity apart from self.

god is natural. even elephants, dolphins are capable of some form of love. there is familial love and then there is love that transcends familialism. there have been seen instance of interspecies friendships across the spectrum.

Rocks are part of nature. Gasses are part of nature liquids a part of nature. The vacuum in space is part of nature. Where do they demonstrate love? If god is nature, then you can just use the word we already have for that, which is......drum roll...........NATURE. You can dispense with the other term and we can talk about nature. None of this addresses the "god is love" concept.

 

[Milton Platt]

I'd suppose most believers feel then actions of God can be observed. Like the wind, you can't see it but can observe it's effects.

If you believe God created the world, then wallah! Here we be observing the effects of God. If you believe in natural laws, then wallah! etc...

However even thoughts effect the mind. So if God only exists as a thought and a thought is considered an actual thing, then wallah! God exists.

Loved your "atheists do not exist" sign. apparently, I do not exist, and yet here I am participating in this forum.
Interesting concept.