Is God a "deadbeat dad"?

[Firemorphic]

So then you are saying that god observes horrific acts against children as well as natural disasters that kill thousands but he decides to do nothing even though he could have stopped it? I am more moral than your god. If I had the power I would stop a child rapist. How about you?

I've never understood these incoherent babble arguments, could you explain further what you're trying to suggest, substantiate or insinuate here?

 

[Milton Platt]

I've never understood these incoherent babble arguments, could you explain further what you're trying to suggest, substantiate or insinuate here?

1. God knows everything
2. God can do anything
3. god saw a child being raped
4. god decides to let the child be raped
5. God is immoral.

 

[Firemorphic]

1. God knows everything
2. God can do anything
3. god saw a child being raped
4. god decides to let the child be raped
5. God is immoral.

None of this sits right with me because it's quite alien to the concept of God.

1. God doesn't "know" everything, God isn't a being, God is knowledge itself.
2. God doesn't "do", that is a very finite idea.
3. That's just a strange one. But if you want to get into the technicalities of theology and explore that rabbithole, then technically God is both the rapist and the child being raped, simultaneously, in the grander picture of existence. But otherwise, there is no valid reason to blame that on the creator.
4. That one is just a naive suggestion
5. Immortality is a fleshly idea, God is not immortal that's absurd. God is beyond life/death.

 

[Milton Platt]

None of this sits right with me because it's quite alien to the concept of God.

1. God doesn't "know" everything, God isn't a being, God is knowledge itself.
2. God doesn't "do", that is a very finite idea.
3. That's just a strange one. But if you want to get into the technicalities of theology and explore that rabbithole, then technically God is both the rapist and the child being raped, simultaneously, in the grander picture of existence. But otherwise, there is no valid reason to blame that on the creator.
4. That one is just a naive suggestion
5. Immortality is a fleshly idea, God is not immortal that's absurd. God is beyond life/death.

You now have five assertions you need to support with evidence. Actually 4 I never said anything about immortality........
Number 4 isn't a suggestion. It is a claim that child rape occurs and god does not stop it. Otherwise there would be no child rape. My evidence is 1) God knows child rape occurs 2)he does not stop it (because it occurs)
Your claim that god does not do anything is a laughable claim. that makes him useless.
Your claim that god is a rapist and a child is even more ludicrous. Perhaps you are a pantheist or something?

 

[Firemorphic]

You now have five assertions you need to support with evidence.

I'd like to see yours for the claims you're making about God, if you have any.

YIt is a claim that child rape occurs and god does not stop it.

Your way of thinking about God is just so alien, it's surreal. Again, God is not a being (although the sentence "God is being" would apply as a quality of God)

Your claim that god does not do anything is a laughable claim. that makes him useless.
Your claim that god is a rapist and a child is even more ludicrous. Perhaps you are a pantheist or something?

No, you don't get me. "Doing" is a subject/object thing, it is confined to time/space, it is finite, it is material and circumstantial. God is none of those things but God is the source of those things, of which apply to ourselves. We're the one's that "do".
No, I'm not a Pantheist, I'm a Monotheist.

 

[nPeace]

So that somehow makes it moral to allow child rape???

Are you saying that allowing something to happen is immoral, just because someone thinks it is?
So if, for example, I allowed my child to go through a painful operation, does it become immoral, because another person thinks it is cruel?
Is that how you are viewing it?

 

[1213]

...But is he really like a dad to us? Does he care? Should we love him? Does he even love us? Is he even interested in us?

If so, how has he ever shown it???

God has given everything to us, also advice how to live well. I think, by so He has shown greater love than anyone.

 

[nPeace]

So then you are saying that god observes horrific acts against children as well as natural disasters that kill thousands but he decides to do nothing even though he could have stopped it? I am more moral than your god. If I had the power I would stop a child rapist. How about you?

Would you agree that a person can see things from a viewpoint that is extremely limited?
For example, imagine that you are in an airplane thousands of feet in the air. Is your vision on a clear day, more far-reaching than someone in a bungalow below?
Even further, what if you had a view from a satellite?

It means then, that the way we view a matter is shaped by our perspective.
God has a wider scope and greater perspective than any of us, and therefore is in a better position to access a situation, and know the best way to handle it.

You say, if you had the power, you would do something, but is it just about power, or is wisdom involved, and other things, perhaps?
To give another illustration.
Let's say you do have the power, to easily stop the rape, but in so doing, you trigger a series of events that has far reaching and more serious consequences. Would you use you power, or would you use wisdom?

I think the wise thing to do would be consider the best options.

God is not oblivious to horrific acts.
He is doing something about them.
It's just that some persons are not seeing the wise actions being taken by our God, who balances his qualities - love, justice, wisdom, power - perfectly.
The reason they don't see, is as Hockey Cowboy mentioned... they don't value the things in God's word, nor do they acknowledge God's presence.
Hence their vision evidently, would be quite short-sighted.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So then you are saying that god observes horrific acts against children as well as natural disasters that kill thousands but he decides to do nothing even though he could have stopped it? I am more moral than your god. If I had the power I would stop a child rapist. How about you?

Yes, I would. Go for it!

That being said....mankind's future isn't resting on my shoulders, either. I mean, there are no extremely important issues like that facing me, questioning my sovereignty.

Once mankind's myriad ways of ruling themselves -- democracies, autocracies, monarchies, oligarchies -- are firmly proven to be failures, God's rule through His Kingdom will step in -- Daniel 2:44 -- and never again will bad things happen to innocent people.

But, now, if Jehovah stepped in Everytime something bad was going to happen, the reality of men ruling men would never become known as a failure! We're almost there -- the record of 6,000 years of all types of human governments' falures, w/ mens' inhumane treatment of others, coupled w/ man's destruction of the Earth, is almost complete.

When Jehovah and Jesus do step in, there will be no question if whether man can rule himself, or not -- any more rebellion will rightly be quashed. And if someone tries to hurt another, like rape....under God's rule then, justice will be meted out instantly.

The Kingdom rule over this Earth, will be awesome!

 

[Milton Platt]

That being said....mankind's future isn't resting on my shoulders, either. I mean, there are no extremely important issues like that facing me, questioning my sovereignty.

Once mankind's myriad ways of ruling themselves -- democracies, autocracies, monarchies, oligarchies -- are firmly proven to be failures, God's rule through His Kingdom will step in -- Daniel 2:44 -- and never again will bad things happen to innocent people.

But, now, if Jehovah stepped in Everytime something bad was going to happen, the reality of men ruling men would never become known as a failure! We're almost there -- the record of 6,000 years of all types of human governments' falures, w/ mens' inhumane treatment of others, coupled w/ man's destruction of the Earth, is almost complete.

When Jehovah and Jesus do step in, there will be no question if whether man can rule himself, or not -- any more rebellion will rightly be quashed. And if someone tries to hurt another, like rape....under God's rule then, justice will be meted out instantly.

The Kingdom rule over this Earth, will be awesome!

All of that is irrelevant to whether it is a moral decision to wacth a child be raped and make no attempt to stop it.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

When Jehovah and Jesus do step in, there will be no question if whether man can rule himself, or not -- any more rebellion will rightly be quashed.

If He's unwilling to clock in now, why trust He will later? Governing doesn't seem to be high on His priority list.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

If He's unwilling to clock in now, why trust He will later? Governing doesn't seem to be high on His priority list.

The issues need to be settled, first.

Whatever we may go thru , now, lasts only 70 to 80 years. Usually, life is enjoyable.

(Interesting, when I have conversations with people on this forum about how bad things are, many dispute it, saying "things are great"! But deep down, like this thread reveals, people know conditions aren't as great as they say!)

But some do have it very rough, with sickness, physical abuse, etc. Usually they don't have to suffer long...maybe till they're 20 years old, maybe only 5. Then they 'RIP', until God's promised Resurrection.

According to the Scriptures. by that time, i.e., when God's Kingdom is ruling, those great descriptions of Earthwide peace I previously highlighted from the Bible, will be under way.

IOW..... For all who've died (the majority of mankind), the worst is over. When they are resurrected, it'll be life in better earthly conditions.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

All of that is irrelevant to whether it is a moral decision to wacth a child be raped and make no attempt to stop it.

And yet, innocent children are killed in war all the time. Even today somewhere, no doubt (Probably Syria). Where's your outrage for that? FYI. I refer you to:
Problem of evil, is this a satisfying answer?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

All of that is irrelevant to whether it is a moral decision to wacth a child be raped and make no attempt to stop it.

I gave you the bigger picture, detailing Jehovah's ultimate purpose...your salvation is part of that. So is that child's.

If you don't want to appreciate it...it's on you. You'll still come to know it, one day.

God didn't leave us completely alone....

We have a 1500-page guide Jehovah gave us, while He (and us) face issues that, to answer, required His "absence"...don't follow it, your choice.

 

[Milton Platt]

I gave you the bigger picture, detailing Jehovah's ultimate purpose...your salvation is part of that. So is that child's.

If you don't want to appreciate it...it's on you. You'll still come to know it, one day.

God didn't leave us completely alone....

We have a 1500-page guide Jehovah gave us, while He (and us) face issues that, to answer, required His "absence"...don't follow it, your choice.

Your "guide" includes a section telling Israel where to buy their slaves and that they can pass them down to their heirs because they are their personal property....but that is another discussion.
You have not answered the question, though. Is it immoral to watch a child being raped and not stop it if you could? and does god know when a child is being raped? If the answer to both question is yes, then your god is immoral.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Your "guide" includes a section telling Israel where to buy their slaves and that they can pass them down to their heirs because they are their personal property....but that is another discussion.
You have not answered the question, though. Is it immoral to watch a child being raped and not stop it if you could? and does god know when a child is being raped? If the answer to both question is yes, then your god is immoral.

I did answer your question; but you ignored mine.... Basically, it's this (I'll rephrase it): you want God to step in and stop every child from rape, and not want God to ever stop all the wickedness...or even allow Him to give you (and all those children) everlasting life...on His timetable?

Those issues raised in Genesis 3 1-6, have to be settled, before Jehovah acts!

If you could appreciate that, you'd be able to follow why God hasn't stopped wickedness, yet.

I used to not understand why wickedness is allowed either, but thanks to studying the Scriptures w/ JW's, I have a better grasp of it now.

Isaiah 65:17

 

[Milton Platt]

I did answer your question; but you ignored mine.... Basically, it's this (I'll rephrase it): you want God to step in and stop every child from rape, and not want God to ever stop all the wickedness...or even allow Him to give you (and all those children) everlasting life...on His timetable?

Those issues raised in Genesis 3 1-6, have to be settled, before Jehovah acts!

If you could appreciate that, you'd be able to follow why God hasn't stopped wickedness, yet.

I used to not understand why wickedness is allowed either, but thanks to studying the Scriptures w/ JW's, I have a better grasp of it now.

Isaiah 65:17

No, that does not answer the questions, which are yes and no questions.
Yes, I think stopping child rape would be the moral thing to do, and not stopping it is immoral. I did not address what I wanted god to do about all the other wickedness, but, I certainly did not say I didn't want all other immorality to end as well. I was using a single example to illustrate a point about your god. So lets's address the point and not try to deflect. I say seeing a child being raped and not stopping it is immoral. Yes or no. It is my understanding that the Christian god would be aware of these things. Is that correct? He knows they are happening and allows it? Yes or no? You are free to elaborate once you actually commit to an answer.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No, that does not answer the questions, which are yes and no questions.
Yes, I think stopping child rape would be the moral thing to do, and not stopping it is immoral. I did not address what I wanted god to do about all the other wickedness, but, I certainly did not say I didn't want all other immorality to end as well. I was using a single example to illustrate a point about your god. So lets's address the point and not try to deflect. I say seeing a child being raped and not stopping it is immoral. Yes or no. It is my understanding that the Christian god would be aware of these things. Is that correct? He knows they are happening and allows it? Yes or no? You are free to elaborate once you actually commit to an answer.

No. Because of the reasons I gave, it’s not. The reasons are there. (Can you erase memories?)

Put it on you: you have exceptional powers, but if you stop the rapist from hurting your little girl, the rest of your 8-member family (= all mankind) will be painfully killed (= sin/ imperfection, the cause of sickness, old age then death), including your little girl....and they’ll be dead forever (= no resurrection: the issues were never settled).

What do you do?


[Oversimplified, but can’t make it any easier. There’s so much more involved....Jehovah’s holiness, His never-changing standards, and mankind’s general unwillingness to live by those standards. Only a study of His Word would help.]

Someday, tho, you will come to know. I only hope it won’t be to your detriment, my cousin.

 

[Milton Platt]

No. Because of the reasons I gave, it’s not. The reasons are there. (Can you erase memories?)

Put it on you: you have exceptional powers, but if you stop the rapist from hurting your little girl, the rest of your 8-member family (= all mankind) will be painfully killed (= sin/ imperfection, the cause of sickness, old age then death), including your little girl....and they’ll be dead forever (= no resurrection: the issues were never settled).

What do you do?


[Oversimplified, but can’t make it any easier. There’s so much more involved....Jehovah’s holiness, His never-changing standards, and mankind’s general unwillingness to live by those standards. Only a study of His Word would help.]

Someday, tho, you will come to know. I only hope it won’t be to your detriment, my cousin.

Okay, so you do not believe it is immoral to wach a child being raped and do nothing about it.
The justification you give for your immoral view is not relevant. You are saying there is a being who created everything, sees everything, knows everything, and can do anything, but for some reason the only world he is capable of creating must include child rape.
In other words, he must commit an immoral act ( many, actually) because the world he created requires him to do so. And it is not in his power to create a world any other way. So he either chose to create a world in which he has to do immoral things, and has no choice, or he thinks child rape is not immoral, like you.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Okay, so you do not believe it is immoral to wach a child being raped and do nothing about it.
The justification you give for your immoral view is not relevant. You are saying there is a being who created everything, sees everything, knows everything, and can do anything, but for some reason the only world he is capable of creating must include child rape.
In other words, he must commit an immoral act ( many, actually) because the world he created requires him to do so. And it is not in his power to create a world any other way. So he either chose to create a world in which he has to do immoral things, and has no choice, or he thinks child rape is not immoral, like you.

Don’t be so inflammatory, and twist my words.

You asked, if I would stop a child rape. I said...

Yes, I would.

You didn’t answer my question.

Deuteronomy 32:5