Is "Devil Worship" another Abrahamic faith?

[Reverend Rick]

Good luck with that.

I personally believe it is an insult to both Abrahamic traditions and the devil folk to lump them together. Maybe a better title would be Semitic traditions instead.

We agree Viker. :yes:

One other point, I did not bring up the word "old school".

If there was an "old school" Satanist, most likely they where accused of such and never professed their faith unless confession under torture was applied.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Good luck with that.

I personally believe it is an insult to both Abrahamic traditions and the devil folk to lump them together. Maybe a better title would be Semitic traditions instead.

Perceived insult should not be what governs definitions. Some Christians believe that Islam is a Pagan Moon God Cult and their existance is an insult to the Abrahamic God. Do we bow to their belief of what is Abrahamic and what is not? Why shouldn't their insult be anymore or less important than someone elses?

 

[Viker]

Perceived insult should not be what governs definitions. Some Christians believe that Islam is a Pagan Moon God Cult and their existance is an insult to the Abrahamic God. Do we bow to their belief of what is Abrahamic and what is not? Why shouldn't their insult be anymore or less important than someone elses?

Jews have been asking so many questions for nearly two thousand years. They now accept the both (Christianity and Islam) as Abrahamic. They adore the God, they agree with the basic tenets, they believe their is something very special about the Holy Land. Satanists or devil worshipers don't care. This is different than petty squabbles between factional fundies on opposing sides. Devil worship, at it's core, is un-Abrahamic.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Devil worship, at it's core, is un-Abrahamic.

No, it is Anti-Abrahamic, not un-Abrahamic. Very different. Is the Anti-Christ not a part of the Abrahamic faith? A religion can't simply deny the negative side of itself because its not pleasant.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

To be honest, I’m very surprised by this argument we have found ourselves in. To me the definition of Abrahamic is very easy to understand but I see that so many people out there have a completely different view of the subject. Wow, who knew? Nothing said has given me cause to change my definition but neither have I offered any evidence that my definition is definitive either. So we find ourselves locked in a battle of semantics that could go on for eternity. Time to agree to disagree in my opinion.

 

[Viker]

No, it is Anti-Abrahamic, not un-Abrahamic. Very different. Is the Anti-Christ not a part of the Abrahamic faith? A religion can't simply deny the negative side of itself because its not pleasant.

What makes you think all of it is anti-anything? Marylin Manson? lol I really want to know why or where you get your knowledge of Devil worship from.

I have never encountered a theistic Satanist/devil worshiper that believes in an Anti-Christ either. Un-Abrahamic.

 

[Viker]

To be honest, I’m very surprised by this argument we have found ourselves in. To me the definition of Abrahamic is very easy to understand but I see that so many people out there have a completely different view of the subject. Wow, who knew? Nothing said has given me cause to change my definition but neither have I offered any evidence that my definition is definitive either. So we find ourselves locked in a battle of semantics that could go on for eternity. Time to agree to disagree in my opinion.

Okay.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

What makes you think all of it is anti-anything? Marylin Manson? lol I really want to know why or where you get your knowledge of Devil worship from.

I have never encountered a theistic Satanist/devil worshiper that believes in an Anti-Christ either. Un-Abrahamic.

Refer back to the OP.

 

[Reverend Rick]

No, it is Anti-Abrahamic, not un-Abrahamic. Very different. Is the Anti-Christ not a part of the Abrahamic faith? A religion can't simply deny the negative side of itself because its not pleasant.

I'm following your logic here Trey, Technically you and Draka are correct that God and the Devil are Abrahamic.

The thing is, I'm Abrahamic because I believe in God and the Devil. It is part of my religion.

Many Satanists do not believe in God and the Devil. Correct me if I am wrong here, but many Satanists are Atheists at heart and do not believe in God.

A Panthesist may worship one Deity above another, but they still believe the other Deities exist as well.

This would be a dis qualifier for many Satanists to actually be Abrahamic IMHO.

Thats why I say for a Satanist to be Abrahamic, they must identify themselves as such.

I'm still waiting for that one example which would satisfy this requirement.

 

[Flankerl]

Sorry to disappoint but many of us hold that opinion and would prefer not to be silenced, even if asked nicely.

So you are saying that the christian/muslim devil/satan is the same as the jewish satan? Really?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Many Satanists do not believe in God and the Devil. Correct me if I am wrong here, but many Satanists are Atheists at heart and do not believe in God.

The OP specifically stated that we are discussing the group of Satanists who worship the Abrahamic Satan, NOT the Neo-Satanists that you are describing here. So while you are correct in what you say it has nothing to do with the context of this thread.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

So you are saying that the christian/muslim devil/satan is the same as the jewish satan? Really?

Yes, are you saying he isn't? I did not know that the Jews had their own Satan.

 

[Viker]

Yes, are you saying he isn't? I did not know that the Jews had their own Satan.

They do. It is completely different than their Satan. In fact, the Jewish Satan is a sock puppet that must grovel to God to even go pee.

In Judaism, only living personifications that set them selves up as enemies of Israel are embodiments of evil ( i.e. the Biblical story of an actual king they named Lucifer). Judaism is devoid of the dualism present in Christianity or Islam. Satan is a powerless pawn in God's game, hardly an enemy of God.

 

[blackout]

To put it another way; without the Abrahamic religion of Christianity there would be no Satan for anybody to either despise or worship.

I'm pretty sure though that Judaism regards Satan as an agent of God,
with the role of "adversary". (bringer of adversity/challange etc)

He is not despised, but seen as a legitimate agent of Yahwey,
working in his service. Satan, a lesser God of this Origin'al Abrhamic Pantheon,
who works in service of Yahwey. (the Alpha God)

Anyone Jewish please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

So assuming I'm correct about this,
it was Christianity who first stepped into
the (origin'al) story of this (Abrhamic) Pantheon
and re-wrote it. Re ordered it. Expanding the God pantheon.
Added a mediating Man-God equal to the Alpha God Yahwey (Creator God)
as well as an Alpha Spirit God also equal to Yahwey.
To Yahwey was added a wife. A "Mrs. Yahwey" so to speak. lol.
which I know very little about beyond the fact that she is physical
in this version of the story, as is Mr. Yahwey.
Do they work as One in consort? or is she a lesser God. I don't know.
Every Alpha God in the pantheon is One, in their Alpha'ness.
The other members of the pantheon
are lesser Gods.
Angels of all kinds, Michael, Raphael, Satan, and the Watchers...
(most of these came from the original story-though roles and purpose have changed dramatically.)
Then the Heroes aided by/given/filled with the powers of the Alpha God/s.
The demi man/gods called Saints, and Prophets.
Some from the original story, and many many more added later.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The OP specifically stated that we are discussing the group of Satanists who worship the Abrahamic Satan, NOT the Neo-Satanists that you are describing here. So while you are correct in what you say it has nothing to do with the context of this thread.

OK, so basically I am still waiting for an example of the Satanist we are discussing.

Do they even exist or for that matter have they ever existed?

The fallen angels are the only example I can think of.

 

[blackout]

I'm pretty sure though that Judaism regards Satan as an agent of God,
with the role of "adversary". (bringer of adversity/challange etc)

He is not despised, but seen as a legitimate agent of Yahwey,
working in his service. Satan, a lesser God of this Origin'al Abrhamic Pantheon,
who works in service of Yahwey. (the Alpha God)

Anyone Jewish please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

So assuming I'm correct about this,
it was Christianity who first stepped into
the (origin'al) story of this (Abrhamic) Pantheon
and re-wrote it. Re ordered it. Expanding the God pantheon.
Added a mediating Man-God equal to the Alpha God Yahwey (Creator God)
as well as an Alpha Spirit God also equal to Yahwey.
To Yahwey was added a wife. A "Mrs. Yahwey" so to speak. lol.
which I know very little about beyond the fact that she is physical
in this version of the story, as is Mr. Yahwey.
Do they work as One in consort? or is she a lesser God. I don't know.
Every Alpha God in the pantheon is One, in their Alpha'ness.
The other members of the pantheon
are lesser Gods.
Angels of all kinds, Michael, Raphael, Satan, and the Watchers...
(most of these came from the original story-though roles and purpose have changed dramatically.)
Then the Heroes aided by/given/filled with the powers of the Alpha God/s.
The demi man/gods called Saints, and Prophets.
Some from the original story, and many many more added later.

Ok, so what's the point.

It's silly for Christians to complain about other changing roles of those in either the Original (Jewish) or the current pantheon (Christian),
because THEY ARE THE ONES who FIRST changed the role of Satan
from that of Angel in direct service of Yahwey,
to enemy of Yahwey.
Without the new revised role of "Satan (the "despised")- evil enemy of God and man",
there would BE no ENEMY character for theistic Satanists (if they even exist)
to reverse, in the first place.

 

[Cassiopia]

Ok, so what's the point.

It's silly for Christians to complain about other changing roles of those in either the Original (Jewish) or the current pantheon (Christian),
because THEY ARE THE ONES who FIRST changed the role of Satan
from that of Angel in direct service of Yahwey,
to enemy of Yahwey.
Without the new revised role of "Satan- evil enemy of God and man",
there would BE no ENEMY character for theistic Satanists (if they even exist)
to reverse, in the first place.

:yes: That's what I meant.

To the best of my knowledge Judasim, Christianity and Islam are commonly referred to as the Abrahamic faiths. Thus any concepts that originate within those faiths must belong to those faiths to some degree.
I accept that at a theological level there may be more room for discussion as to what constitutes an Abrahamic theology and I totally accept that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are very different to each other. However, at a descriptive level at least, they are all Abrahamic religions in the common encyclopedic understanding of the word.
I would say that the type of "Devil worship" referred to very categorically at the start of this thread is based exclusively on the personality and concept of a being described in Christian scriptures, ideology and theology. Thus that kind of Satanism or Devil worship is a direct offshoot of Christianity (which is not to say that it is a part of that religion). As such I think it could be described at the very least as an offshoot of the Abrahamic religions.

To put it another way; without the Abrahamic religion of Christianity there would be no Satan for anybody to either despise or worship.

 

[blackout]

Would it be accurate to say that,

from a Jewish perspective
christianity has made a scapegoat of Satan?

(in that his character now works in defiance of Yahwey,
instead of willful compliance, as he fulfills the role
for which he was created)

 

[Viker]

OK, so basically I am still waiting for an example of the Satanist we are discussing.

Do they even exist or for that matter have they ever existed?

The fallen angels are the only example I can think of.

Before the modern era, I would say no. I'm pretty sure if actual devil worshipers existed before a certain point they were in hiding.

This guy is sure interesting though and he is not LaVey. Dude won a Nobel Prize lol.

Hymn To Satan by Giosue Carducci Classic Famous Poet - All Poetry.

 

[blackout]

OOp! How could I forget the "Mother of God"?!
(as an x catholic )
Mortal demi-god human gives birth to immortal Alpha Man-God.

Just had to throw that addition/revision in.
She has a very important role in some versions of the revised Abrhamic Pantheon.
She acts as direct Mediatrix to her Alpha God Son.