Is a meaningless universe enough of a reason to adopt a religion?

[Kilgore Trout]

Don't judge my lifestyle!

Shhhhh! I'm binge watching some show with some guy.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

For me personally, trying to fake it was a disaster. Especially trying to fake Christianity because I knew the Christian deity was reportedly against lip service. So I left. The terrible truth was more important to me than the beautiful lie: I did not believe there was a God.

As I got older I thought the more important question is if a purpose given to you is more important than what goals you give yourself. And my personal answer is no. So when I do charity or help family and friends or animals, it feels more real and sincere because I'm not doing it to fulfill someone else's expectation of me, I'm doing it because I expect it of myself.

I think there's value in helping living things even if I don't get any post-mortem reward, or if there's not some authority telling me that's what I should do.

 

[David T]

If you believed that the truth of the universe was that it was meaningless and that human life was a mere accident is this a good enough reason to try and adopt a different set of beliefs? Is It enough of a reason that someone who thinks all this is depressing and that existing would at least be a little bit better with belief in god even if that god doesn't exist to try and believe in a god?

You could argue that belief in a god or anything supernatural won't help if it's forced. I would have to argue that I've seen people who at the very least live a better life on the outside when they pretend. And I do know a few pretenders. What exactly would be the point in affirming nihilism and a meaningless universe? If these things are truly meaningless then why not adopt something that might make you feel better?

Just a question that's popped into my head Is all.

] isn't a meaningless universe a by product of a choices made already made independent of the universe is meaningless? It's not in a sense where people start it's where people end up. Its narrcisistic and bad science and it's often passed off as intelligent, when it actually is just intellectualizingrationalizing pretending it's reasoned. I mushed rationalizing and intellectualizing together it's identical.

 

[Thief]

] isn't a meaningless universe a by product of a choices made already made independent of the universe is meaningless? It's not in a sense where people start it's where people end up. Its narrcisistic and bad science and it's often passed off as intelligent, when it actually is just intellectualizingrationalizing pretending it's reasoned. I mushed rationalizing and intellectualizing together it's identical.

if substance moved of it's own .....without intelligence or reason
then the existence of Man was formed without reason
no rational
no intention
no purpose
a mystery without resolve

 

[David T]

if substance moved of it's own .....without intelligence or reason
then the existence of Man was formed without reason
no rational
no intention
no purpose
a mystery without resolve

By intelligence or independent of human intellect? There seems here to be a facinating state of mutual confusion dressed up in religion and science as logic Somehow logic, intellect ,intelligence, or the human cranium, is the objective determiner, in context to god or nature and it most certainly is no. Thats just Bad pseudo science arguing with horrible pseudo metaphysics not even new testament.

 

[Thief]

By intelligence or independent of human intellect? There seems here to be a facinating state of mutual confusion dressed up in religion and science as logic Somehow logic, intellect ,intelligence, or the human cranium, is the objective determiner, in context to god or nature and it most certainly is no. Thats just Bad pseudo science arguing with horrible pseudo metaphysics not even new testament.

none the less.....
if there is no Intelligence behind the formation of Man
then the formation of Man is a mystery

and we cannot solve it

 

[Thief]

For me personally, trying to fake it was a disaster. Especially trying to fake Christianity because I knew the Christian deity was reportedly against lip service. So I left. The terrible truth was more important to me than the beautiful lie: I did not believe there was a God.

As I got older I thought the more important question is if a purpose given to you is more important than what goals you give yourself. And my personal answer is no. So when I do charity or help family and friends or animals, it feels more real and sincere because I'm not doing it to fulfill someone else's expectation of me, I'm doing it because I expect it of myself.

I think there's value in helping living things even if I don't get any post-mortem reward, or if there's not some authority telling me that's what I should do.

blessed is the servant when found doing as they should

your motivation was always your own

you reject God as your motivator?.....that was alright
reject God altogether?.....I'm not in favor of that

 

[David T]

none the less.....
if there is no Intelligence behind the formation of Man
then the formation of Man is a mystery

and we cannot solve it

Yes, their is indeed magic. I have never seen a love particle there is no emperical evidence what so ever!!! And yet I love. The heart gave rise to the intellect, the body gave rise to the heart, the landscape gave rise to the body. In a meaningless accidentalistic view, the intellect determines the heart, the intellect determines the body the intellect determines determines the landscape completely in contradiction to all emperical evidence in contradiction to the Eucharist. The truth in the Eucharist is not its an an intellectual philosophy, its a shared reality independent of time as we tend to know it shared with christ. "This is my body, this is my blood" is spirituality embodied and makes that verse truth, not of the intellect, just out of shear beauty. A beauty beyond all beauty. If one experiences that, well then, we can dialog. I see the intellect for what it is a that which blocks that in church and outside church.

 

[David T]

none the less.....
if there is no Intelligence behind the formation of Man
then the formation of Man is a mystery

and we cannot solve it

A mystery in context to what exactly? It's not mysterious to me at all, so how one contextualizes dictates the question and it's answer at the same time.if you ask me a question in a context already determined by an assumption how does one answer the question? Seems like a damned if you do damned if you dont question. you may think I am avoiding the question but I am not I am asking in what context do I answer in, our intellect? If that is the basis of what you mean then I would say absolutely is mysterious and always will be in that context. Although I don't suffer from that malady. . Btw this kind of questioning was used by a crazy barefoot carver who ended up getting executed for it in ancient times.

Btw my guru and daughter. She doesn't suffer from the malady intellect. Very awesome teacher way smarter than you or I combined.glasses are only for effect!!!

 

[ADigitalArtist]

blessed is the servant when found doing as they should

your motivation was always your own

you reject God as your motivator?.....that was alright
reject God altogether?.....I'm not in favor of that

I don't believe any gods exist, so it would make for a pretty poor motivation.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If you believed that the truth of the universe was that it was meaningless and that human life was a mere accident is this a good enough reason to try and adopt a different set of beliefs? Is It enough of a reason that someone who thinks all this is depressing and that existing would at least be a little bit better with belief in god even if that god doesn't exist to try and believe in a god?

You could argue that belief in a god or anything supernatural won't help if it's forced. I would have to argue that I've seen people who at the very least live a better life on the outside when they pretend. And I do know a few pretenders. What exactly would be the point in affirming nihilism and a meaningless universe? If these things are truly meaningless then why not adopt something that might make you feel better?

Just a question that's popped into my head Is all.

It's something I've thought about from time to time. The whole 'depressing reality of our meaningless existence' thing doesn't make much sense to me, but I get that it can be real, at least for a few. I tend to see forced belief (even if forced by self) to be ultimately more self-destructive than 'depressing reality' though. The one time that sort of belief is likely to fail you would be when it's needed the most.

However, if I can change things up a little, then I think it's worth going through the motions of belief for a while if that is your frame of mind. Go to church, or be around believers. Go through the motions, so to speak. This is, ultimately, the most likely path to some sort of honest belief for an undecided person.

From me personally, though, any concept of pretending would make me oh so very sad. Authenticity makes me happy.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

"If these things are truly meaningless then why not adopt something that might make you feel better?"

Why would that something have to be religion?

If you have the chance to shape the purpose of your life in any direction you want, why should you waste that opportunity on religion?

I think this is an important point too. There are plenty of life affirming philosophies or approaches to life that have nothing to do with religion. Others that are religious, but not theistic.

Secular humanism isn't really my bag, but I'd head that way if I needed to shake life up in that 'life affirming' way.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If religion makes you at peace with your self you don't need further reasons

That would seem to depend on how said religion/peace impacts on others.
But sure, generically that is true.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

how about....?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

I always preferred 'Don't do to others as you don't want done to you.'
Makes it less risky that the golden rule is used as justification for getting jiggy with the neighbours wife.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

And I am not alone.

Well, you and all your buddies should probably go take a look at the official/accepted definition of "masturbation". I can assure you it has nothing to do with gardening or sports, drugs or restaurants. You chose that word, above others, for shock value. Just admit it and either stop, or put on a clown nose and continue.

 

[Thief]

I think this is an important point too. There are plenty of life affirming philosophies or approaches to life that have nothing to do with religion. Others that are religious, but not theistic.

Secular humanism isn't really my bag, but I'd head that way if I needed to shake life up in that 'life affirming' way.

I am not religious
and here I am shaking things up

is that what you mean?

 

[Thief]

I don't believe any gods exist, so it would make for a pretty poor motivation.

still.....God and heaven will look upon your deeds AND your motivation

your denial might earn for you a slap up side the head
but your personal motivations count for something

 

[Thief]

A mystery in context to what exactly? ]

existence.

without that Creator behind all of this.....all of us are doomed to the grave

no chance of continuance?
not one in 7billion?

 

[fi11222]

Well, you and all your buddies should probably go take a look at the official/accepted definition of "masturbation". I can assure you it has nothing to do with gardening or sports, drugs or restaurants. You chose that word, above others, for shock value. Just admit it and either stop, or put on a clown nose and continue.

Masturbation, in an ordinary sense = stimulation of sexual organs and attendant neural wiring in order to get pleasure.
Music = stimulation of auditory organs and attendant neural wiring in order to get pleasure.
Elaborate cooking = stimulation of gustatory organs and attendant neural wiring in order to get pleasure.
Religion = stimulation of trust-processing organs and attendant neural wiring in order to get pleasure.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Masturbation, in an ordinary sense = stimulation of sexual organs and attendant neural wiring in order to get pleasure.
Music = stimulation of auditory organs and attendant neural wiring in order to get pleasure.
Elaborate cooking = stimulation of gustatory organs and attendant neural wiring in order to get pleasure.
Religion = stimulation of trust-processing organs and attendant neural wiring in order to get pleasure.

None of those things are true outside of your own opinion/mind. Try getting Webster's to adopt your definition of "masturbation" so that we can all start using it as you do. Go on now...

I, myself (and I am sure many others), would simply refuse to accept your "general" defining of the word "masturbation." I will assume you are talking about pleasuring yourself sexually, no matter how many different activities you attempt to make it the subject of.