Intimate relationships with God? (Bhavas)

[Onkara]

The five bhavas in Sanatana Dharma help to capture how we may have a relationship with God based on human relationships.

Questions:
What is your relationship?
Which is more philosophically rewarding?
Does your sense of love change with the approach you adopt, how? Could you change your bhava?

Question open to everyone, all religions.

Dasya Bhava – Servant to God - God is all powerful, we are His subjects.
Sakhya Bhava – Friendship with God - God is our best intimate friend, equality.
Vatsalya Bhava – Motherly Love towards God - God is our Child to nurture.(Kanta bhava)
Madhurya Bhava – God as Lover - Like a wife and husband.
Shanta Bhava – Peaceful immersion - Seeing God as deep peace.

 

[Madhuri]

What is your relationship?

- I think that at this point in my life I tend to see God in the friend aspect. However, sometimes I see Him in all aspects; the greatest lover, the greatest friend, the powerful Bhagavan, the sweetest child and the embodiment of peace. Truly he is all of these things, but represents something specifically for every individual. There have been times when I fancied the idea of being His queen, lol (I was young) and times when I've felm maternal affection (strange, in a sense. Mother to God? Hmmm, and yet...) but generally now I would say friend.

Which is more philosophically rewarding?

- This is a very personal and individual experience. There's no wrong answer; the reward is entirely relative and subjective.

Does you love change...?

I guess I felt a stronger love when I experienced the material affection. But...it was different. That was before I realsied that God was everything. Now my love has simply expanded around myself and taken on a slightly different quality.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

To be honest I don't believe in a special relationship of any kind. It is to me rather like claiming to have a special relationship with your fingernail... For me "God" (Unity/Supreme Reality) is both remote but present; nowhere but everything; and dynamic but ordering...

So the best one can "hope" for is a humble acceptance of one's "station" in life and the cosmos. If this is what is meant by "peaceful immersion" then this is to what I aspire. The ability to tranquilly (not just calmly) and happily (not just have fun) proceed to the end of my days fulfilled every minute (not just at the end) of my life.

Your approach to love certainly does change, and I know that one's "Bhava" can change as mine certainly has. The notion of a "Father/Mother" "God" figure strikes me as wrong even though it was what I was first exposed to.

I admit I find the notion of "Kanta Bhava" interesting... Does this portend that one should nurture and care for all of existence?

MTF

 

[Madhuri]

I admit I find the notion of "Kanta Bhava" interesting... Does this portend that one should nurture and care for all of existence?

MTF

I think that the point of all of this is that what we feel is very individual and relative. It isn't about what we 'should' feel or do. So if Kanta Bhava makes you believe that you should nurture and care for all of existence, then that is true and that is reality for you.

The notion of bhava comes from (this is my understanding) the eastern idea that we all have an eternal relationship with God. In 'heaven' you can be a friend, a parent, a 'lover' etc. to God. You become what you are attracted to. If you are attracted to Shanta bhava, for instance, you have an attraction to Brahman; eternal consciousness. You merge with the cosmic consciousness and lose all sense of individuality.

 

[Onkara]

Thanks to you both for replying.

Your approach to love certainly does change, and I know that one's "Bhava" can change as mine certainly has. The notion of a "Father/Mother" "God" figure strikes me as wrong even though it was what I was first exposed to.MTF

This is something that continues to hold my interest as it appears to me to make difference, perhaps not when other parts of the puzzle begin to fall in place, but certainly for the aspirant. The Dasya Bhava (God as master) comes closer to the Abrahamic religions. Personally I think it is the harder to accept whilst the sense of individuality is still intact. I think it helps to explain why westeners may look away from Abrahamic faiths.

I admit I find the notion of "Kanta Bhava" interesting... Does this portend that one should nurture and care for all of existence?MTF

One small note. "Kanta brava" has been defined as singing in praise and chanting your love for God. I have also seen it used for the Vatsalya Bhava which is why I put it at the end in brackets. I recommend using Vatsalya Bhava to refer to "nuture love approach".

Answering your question, you make a valid point. I would assume it does imply that you see all existence as something which you can nature and care fall.

 

[EddyM]

Good thread man.

The five bhavas in Sanatana Dharma help to capture how we may have a relationship with God based on human relationships.

Questions:
What is your relationship?
Which is more philosophically rewarding?
Does your sense of love change with the approach you adopt, how? Could you change your bhava?

Question open to everyone, all religions.

Dasya Bhava – Servant to God - God is all powerful, we are His subjects.
Sakhya Bhava – Friendship with God - God is our best intimate friend, equality.
Vatsalya Bhava – Motherly Love towards God - God is our Child to nurture.(Kanta bhava)
Madhurya Bhava – God as Lover - Like a wife and husband.
Shanta Bhava – Peaceful immersion - Seeing God as deep peace.

Sorry but to correct you slightly Madhurya Bhava is the highest... and apparently I'm not supposed to explicitly say about that...

 

[EddyM]

I think that the point of all of this is that what we feel is very individual and relative. It isn't about what we 'should' feel or do. So if Kanta Bhava makes you believe that you should nurture and care for all of existence, then that is true and that is reality for you.

The notion of bhava comes from (this is my understanding) the eastern idea that we all have an eternal relationship with God. In 'heaven' you can be a friend, a parent, a 'lover' etc. to God. You become what you are attracted to. If you are attracted to Shanta bhava, for instance, you have an attraction to Brahman; eternal consciousness. You merge with the cosmic consciousness and lose all sense of individuality.

My understanding from bhavas is that God actually has a physical form.(literally)

"Tirya Gordhwa Madhasayi Rasmayas Tasya Santhatha"

"Santhapayathi Svam Dehama Padathala Masthakaha"

These verses reveal that God is Peace. And that the Source of Peace is revealed through His body.

It is said that the Rishis "experienced" God as Peace. But to say that they "merged" with God seems to be non-dualistic. I don't the individual trying to connect with God necessarily having to mean that the nature of the two becomes fused in some sort.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I would say madhurya rasa with the idea of aishvarya... However, I continue to believe that God is ineffable under every circumstance, and any bhava, any tendency or inclination on how we feel about God's reciprocal relationship with each and every individual is unique in every way, and a private affair between the soul and God Himself.

I do not control the rasa exchange between me and God. Rather, I let God perform His Will, and accept whatever kind of mellow He desires to share with me. He is beyond everything, and yet so intimate with His devotees, according to their desires of how they wish to approach Him.

 

[Astravalon]

The five bhavas in Sanatana Dharma help to capture how we may have a relationship with God based on human relationships.

Questions:
What is your relationship?
Which is more philosophically rewarding?
Does your sense of love change with the approach you adopt, how? Could you change your bhava?

Question open to everyone, all religions.

Dasya Bhava – Servant to God - God is all powerful, we are His subjects.
Sakhya Bhava – Friendship with God - God is our best intimate friend, equality.
Vatsalya Bhava – Motherly Love towards God - God is our Child to nurture.(Kanta bhava)
Madhurya Bhava – God as Lover - Like a wife and husband.
Shanta Bhava – Peaceful immersion - Seeing God as deep peace.

I know this is an old thread but I found it searching for material concerning madhurya bhava and just had to chime in.

I think in my own journey (which had been primarily Christian) I have covered all of the bhavas except the Vatsalya bhava, and the only reason I haven’t had that particular one is because I have always seen myself as being more of the child in my relationship with God (Him having been around much longer than I and all that, lol! ).

Other than that, the most recent bhava to overtake me (and I seriously hope it never changes!!) has been the Madhurya bhava, which occured in May of this year and was precipitated by having gotten acquainted with God in His Krishna form. It feels like the missing piece in my relationship with God. It’s as though I had been interacting with Him blindfolded all this time, and He finally removes the blindfold so I can actually see Him, and it’s like “Wow! You’re all these other things (Love, Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnipresence) and You’re Gorgeous too??”

On the surface it sounds somewhat superficial on my part, that something as trivial as how He looks should have such a great impact, but I know He had my heart long before then. I think He was slowly establishing in my awareness a realization of His substance, saving any speculation on His exterior form for once it became certain that my love for Him was based upon Who He is. And it didn’t hurt learning the stories of the rasa dance, and how Krishna interacted with the gopis -- that sort of expression of love (romantic and all that goes with it) occurring between God and us is not something that was emphasized in my Christian upbringing. The Bible has the Song of Solomon, which comes closest to the stories of Krishna and Radha’s love, but that was about it, and it wasn’t the sort of thing preachers dwelled upon on Sunday mornings.

Sorry to ramble …. this subject is near and dear to my heart!


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[Astravalon]

... with regards to the various Bhavas.

I notice that there's Vatsalya Bhava, which is the motherly love towards God and He is our child, but is there a Bhava where one sees God as their Parent and they (the devotee) is the child? Or is that something that's unique to the religion in which I grew up (Christianity in various forms)?


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[Richardriddell]

When the devotee grows in devotion, there is absolute self-forgetfulness. This is called Bhava. Bhava establishes a true relationship between the devotee and the Lord. Bhava then grows into Maha-Bhava wherein the devotee lives, moves and has his being in the Lord. This is Parama-Prema, the consummation of love or Supreme Love.

 

[ratikala]

When the devotee grows in devotion, there is absolute self-forgetfulness. This is called Bhava.

jai !

some times from hearing people speak of their relationship or bhava one would think that it was a chosen thing , as if it were a relationship that one could select ?

yet the reality of bhava is that it is something that grows ,
as richard says when one is totaly absorbed to the point of forgetting oneself , then in that absence of self bhava develops .

Bhava establishes a true relationship between the devotee and the Lord.

when one 's attitude towards the lord is a love born out of respect , the attitude of a saint or a rishi , then that is santa bhava .

when out of loving devotion one would do anything for the lord , the attitude of a humble and loving servant , the attitude shown to lord rama by hanuman , this is dasya bhava .

the relationship of arjuna , who's friendship with the lord was that of reciprical love and respect for someone who had shown him freindship and great kindness .is the attitude of sakhya bhava .

when one's love is like that of a mother who's heart is filled with joy at the thought of her child , whos love is nurturing and careing and ever forgiving , the love of mother yashoda towards krsna , this is vatsaiya bhava .

the love of adoration , attraction and affection , is the divine all consuming love of srimati radharani for krsna , the love of madhura bhava .


in the case of each bhava it is the love expressed from the devotee towards the lord .

one who truely loves asks nothing in return , wishing only for the happiness of their beloved .

my bhava ? .....santa bhava , and dasya bhava .

most phylosopicaly rewarding ? ......never thought of it that way !!! phylosophy hardly enters in to it !

does love change with the approach you adopt ? ....with any form of service one does what is needed at any given time , (it is not to me a matter of approach)
can you change your bhava ? .....no I cant change It , bhava is something that spontaniously happens in responce to the lord .
for example on sri krsna janmashtami , baby krsna is placed in a swing , many people bring him presents and take it in turn to swing lord krsna , this act brings about love towards a child , one canot help but think of him on that day as a child you see many people approach him with the love of a mother swinging him gently , lovingly and with fondness in their eyes , and young children approach him and gently swing him as they would a younger brother , the ladies cook him his favorite foods , on that day all the mothers bring him sweet dishes , mothers know a child loves sweets and particularly khir , so all the women bring him khir , no one thinks that there will be too much khir thay are simply thinking of what baby krsna enjoys , this is bhava , and on that day you enter in to a different bhava , you cant choose it , it simply happens to you .

:bow: ratikala