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Intertestamental Period

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Is it the Great Assembly that determined the Jewish Canon?
In a certain sense yes, but also not exactly. Per Jewish tradition, the GA essentially locked the prophetic texts. What I mean by that is that they declared that until date x - texts that have been written may or may not be holy, and any texts written after that are post-prophecy and therefore not even potentially on-level with holy texts. I do not mean that they are the ones who stopped prophecy, but they are the ones who set in the periodization during the early days of the Second Temple period, with regards to what would eventually be canonized. The canon itself was still debated over for several centuries after the time of the GA.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I never notice much reference about this time period, but I would think it lends importance to both Jews and Christians.

The Intertestamental period refers to the years intervening between the closing of the OT canon(ca. 400–165BC and the composition of the NT (ca. AD 48-95)

Many scholars prefer to designate the era as the Second Temple period+ spanning the years from 58BC the destruction of the -first Temple down to the destruction of the second Temple in AD70 and its aftermath in the Bar Kochba Revolt of AD 132-135.

The importance of this era can scarcely be overemphasized for an in depth study of the NT because the roots of Christianity reach back into this formative period and significantly conditions meaning. since second Temple Judaism itself is rooted in the ancestral faith of Israel as enshrined in the Hebrew Bible. Hebraic thought is the matrix out of which the message of the NT emerges.
(DOC) Intertestamental History | Larry Helyer - Academia.edu

How do you take into account, the so called intertestamental literature?
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
There are books of the bible in that period that protestants removed.

As I understand it those books were not in the original Hebrew, and for that reason Luther did not accept them as inspired. Catholics retain those of the Septuagint in use at the time of Jesus.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
As I understand it those books were not in the original Hebrew, and for that reason Luther did not accept them as inspired. Catholics retain those of the Septuagint in use at the time of Jesus.
So he should throw out the NT too :D
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
It's in Greek.

I don't think its a matter of language itself, but what Luther sees as additional writings not in the original Hebrew.
Difference between Luther's Bible and Catholic Bible;

Catholic and Protestant Bibles both include 27 books in the New Testament. Protestant Bibles have only 39 books in the Old Testament, while Catholic Bibles have 46. The seven books included in Catholic Bibles are Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, and Baruch. Catholic Bibles also include sections in the Books of Esther and Daniel which are not found in Protestant Bibles. These books are called the deuterocanonical books. The Catholic Church believes these books to be inspired by the Holy Spirit.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think its a matter of language itself, but what Luther sees as additional writings not in the original Hebrew.
Difference between Luther's Bible and Catholic Bible;

Catholic and Protestant Bibles both include 27 books in the New Testament. Protestant Bibles have only 39 books in the Old Testament, while Catholic Bibles have 46. The seven books included in Catholic Bibles are Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, and Baruch. Catholic Bibles also include sections in the Books of Esther and Daniel which are not found in Protestant Bibles. These books are called the deuterocanonical books. The Catholic Church believes these books to be inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Yes, but these books were included in many Jewish Diaspora Greek biblical codices. This is the codex the Church would ultimately use, and as there was no fixed Jewish canon at that time they were free, as Jews, to use whichever they and their sect saw fit to use. I see no reason the Church, as a separate sect from Pharisaic Judaism and originating from Hellenistic as well as Hebrew thought, should be bound to the same canon the Jews eventually settled on. It's wrong to talk about 'the original Hebrew' unless you're talking about language, and even then the Greek manuscripts may have originated in Hebrew. Sirach:

In the thirty-eighth year of the reign of Euergetes, when I came to Egypt and stayed for some time, I found a copy affording no little instruction. It seemed highly necessary that I should myself devote some diligence and labour to the translation of this book. During that time I have applied my skill day and night to complete and publish the book for those living abroad who wish to gain learning and are preparing to live according to the law.

Wiki:
The "Book of ben Sirach" (ספר בן סירא, Sefer ben Sira') was originally written in Hebrew, and was also known in Hebrew as the "Proverbs of ben Sirach" (משלי בן סירא, Mišley ben Sira') or the "Wisdom of ben Sirach" (חכמת בן סירא, Ḥokhmat ben Sira').

Which books should be included was never a straightforward task for Jews or Christians; but by the time it's the XVIth century ce, it's the Reformers who must justify taking those books out, which have been canonical for over a millennium.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I never notice much reference about this time period, but I would think it lends importance to both Jews and Christians.

The Intertestamental period refers to the years intervening between the closing of the OT canon(ca. 400–165BC and the composition of the NT (ca. AD 48-95)

Many scholars prefer to designate the era as the Second Temple period+ spanning the years from 58BC the destruction of the -first Temple down to the destruction of the second Temple in AD70 and its aftermath in the Bar Kochba Revolt of AD 132-135.

The importance of this era can scarcely be overemphasized for an in depth study of the NT because the roots of Christianity reach back into this formative period and significantly conditions meaning. since second Temple Judaism itself is rooted in the ancestral faith of Israel as enshrined in the Hebrew Bible. Hebraic thought is the matrix out of which the message of the NT emerges.
(DOC) Intertestamental History | Larry Helyer - Academia.edu

Miracle: knowing that the date was BC (so they'd have to have known when Jesus was going to live). (Joke).

Since little was known about the writing of the bible (who wrote it, his sources of info (word of mouth or divine ESP?), there isn't much that could be learned from this "critical" period. Yes, a lot went on, but we don't know what it was.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Yes, but these books were included in many Jewish Diaspora Greek biblical codices. This is the codex the Church would ultimately use, and as there was no fixed Jewish canon at that time they were free, as Jews, to use whichever they and their sect saw fit to use. I see no reason the Church, as a separate sect from Pharisaic Judaism and originating from Hellenistic as well as Hebrew thought, should be bound to the same canon the Jews eventually settled on. It's wrong to talk about 'the original Hebrew' unless you're talking about language, and even then the Greek manuscripts may have originated in Hebrew. Sirach:

In the thirty-eighth year of the reign of Euergetes, when I came to Egypt and stayed for some time, I found a copy affording no little instruction. It seemed highly necessary that I should myself devote some diligence and labour to the translation of this book. During that time I have applied my skill day and night to complete and publish the book for those living abroad who wish to gain learning and are preparing to live according to the law.

Wiki:
The "Book of ben Sirach" (ספר בן סירא, Sefer ben Sira') was originally written in Hebrew, and was also known in Hebrew as the "Proverbs of ben Sirach" (משלי בן סירא, Mišley ben Sira') or the "Wisdom of ben Sirach" (חכמת בן סירא, Ḥokhmat ben Sira').

Which books should be included was never a straightforward task for Jews or Christians; but by the time it's the XVIth century ce, it's the Reformers who must justify taking those books out, which have been canonical for over a millennium.

Hebrew language - Wikipedia

The unsuccessful Bar Kokhba revolt against the Roman Empire, by Judaean Jews, resulted in the Romans killing the ancient Hebrew language (their Jewish slaves were forbidden to speak it). By word of mouth, the language was revived into modern Hebrew (with slight changes over the years). It is the only extant language of Canaan.

Aramaic and Greek were used as international languages during this period. Thus, to get the oldest translations of the New Testament bible, I generally seek out ancient texts in Latin, Greek, or Aramaic. Occasionally, I will select modern Hebrew.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
In a certain sense yes, but also not exactly. Per Jewish tradition, the GA essentially locked the prophetic texts. What I mean by that is that they declared that until date x - texts that have been written may or may not be holy, and any texts written after that are post-prophecy and therefore not even potentially on-level with holy texts. I do not mean that they are the ones who stopped prophecy, but they are the ones who set in the periodization during the early days of the Second Temple period, with regards to what would eventually be canonized. The canon itself was still debated over for several centuries after the time of the GA.

This is assuming that everything in the New Testament bible comes from God psychicly (ESP). But, could some of the info have come from word of mouth, perhaps from the apostles, themselves, or passed on verbally to the author (unknown) of the bible?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
No, the Church didn't decide a thing ... It just took what was already known and made the collection. That's it.
Absolutely false as it took over 1/2 a century, roughly 1000 bishops, and there were plenty of disputes. We know this because of the documentation that the Church wrote at that time in the fourth century when the canon most Christians use was selected.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
This is assuming that everything in the New Testament bible comes from God psychicly (ESP). But, could some of the info have come from word of mouth, perhaps from the apostles, themselves, or passed on verbally to the author (unknown) of the bible?
I don't know what the NT has to do with my post since I wasn't talking about it.
 
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