initiation

[jasonwill2]

What the hell is it and why is it so important? I didn't get "initiated", I just started practicing.

I've started to consider dedicating my life and soul to Satan at some point in the future, and this word seems to somehow be important to such things.

 

[Infinitum]

Many seem to see initiation as a continuing process these days, meaning all magickal progress is a form of initiation. I somewhat disliked the whole concept for quite some time, until I stumbled upon the concept of liminality. It's a surprisingly fascinating subject with strong psychological forces behind it. Now I've been playing with the thought of some kind of formal initiation for some time already, but I'm giving it time to let it form into something that could actually affect where I'm going and how I percieve myself.

 

[Skorzeny]

I see the term as a way to identify a process through which a member of a religion/group will come to be recognised as a long-term or esteemed practitioner of that religious practice by other group members, rather than the term having significance for the individual. Of course, this isn't to say that being recognised for what you do isn't a basic human desire.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm not LHP, but speaking generally, initiations are rites of passage that bear symbolic and ritualistic significance. We don't have too many rites of passage anymore in American culture, and that's too bad. They're clear demarcations that "okay, you were once this and now you're part of something else." It can be a mentally (and sometimes physically) transformative experience with powerful significance. Sometimes such rights of passage are required by certain traditions to confer membership; this is true in some Neopagan traditions such as Gardnerian Wicca and the like. Not sure if any LHP trads have some similar restrictions.

 

[Orias]

What the hell is it and why is it so important? I didn't get "initiated", I just started practicing.

I've started to consider dedicating my life and soul to Satan at some point in the future, and this word seems to somehow be important to such things.

Heh, this reminds me of when I was a young kid.

Closer to the 4th grade I started writing letters to "Satan" asking him for things I can't really remember now (probably stuff like super powers and stuff like that heh). Through out this whole time I never fathomed "God" and "Satan" because I never developed abstract reasoning. I always just consider myself as one of "Satan". I never denied God or accepted him, until my later years when I started attempting to fathom such things.

So to me, Satan was more of a natural thing to me because I never had anyone tell me, "this is how to be a Satanist".

I was just was, and I still am.

IMO, you can't sell your soul its already sold.

 

[blackout]

Every act of 'magic' is an initiatory one.

Definition of INITIATE

transitive verb
1
: to cause or facilitate the beginning of : set going <initiate a program of reform> <enzymes that initiate fermentation>

 

[Adramelek]

1. Initiation= to cause or facilitate the beginning of the process which leads to Self-Becoming.
2. Initiating= the actual living and manifesting the process of Self-Becoming, "I Am Becoming".
3. Initiated= "I Have Become" or "I Have Come Into Being," a.k.a...

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Adramelek]

What the hell is it and why is it so important? I didn't get "initiated", I just started practicing.

I've started to consider dedicating my life and soul to Satan at some point in the future, and this word seems to somehow be important to such things.

By dedicating your self to your chosen path you will have begun the process of Initiation, you will begin Initiating through your own practices and works. Initiation means to Evolve (magically) within the totality of your own Being towards Self-completion.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Mindmaster]

Initiation is probably a bad word for anything -- it is the process of obtaining knowledge or in fact knowing it already. The term itself is almost wasted air when uttered. Anyway, it's typically used by Right Hand Path organizations and Left Hand Paths that borrow from them. Initiation implies exclusivity of knowledge that you must "do something to understand" but my experience has been that there really is no such thing. There is no monopoly of knowledge or super-secrets you cannot get through your own efforts without minimal assistance. You were born with the same capacities as nearly every other homo sapiens on this rock. The more occult groups and LHP prattle on about exclusive secrets, initiations, and more them more I laugh at them.. in general..

As you explore you will find that they have ripped off way more than they have originated -- often from obscure sources (Eastern Mysticism, Ancient Greek/Roman, or really old stuff like Mayan) and merely have repainted them with their favorite red and black colors. Often not siting sources, or admitting that what they are illustrating is an adaptation. CoS is as guilty of this as ToS, ONA, and others. Originality died with Austin Osman Spare I'm afraid.

All of the "secrets" of the ancients were exposed by Crowley... Everyone else just remixed his albums. Trust me on this... You can read his material and Spare's and know EVERYTHING. =) I was a student of western occultism way before I was a Satanist. You can buy your initiation at Amazon.com now so why bother with these silly folks if you need a chat room there are forums that are free. Some research will have you knowing that Xeper=True Will(Crowley)=Nirvana(Eastern Religions)=etc. Yep, they're just borrowed ideas. Certainly, adherents to any of these will tell you they aren't bootlegging it but.. yep.. They are.. They had plenty of time to read the same books I did. Organizations like ToS strike me as much more "Grey" than black... Any conception of "Oversoul"/"True Will"/"etc" moves you directly to the RHP category as far as I'm concerned -- LHP people don't believe in these things typically. Other than name I feel Xeper/Thelema are nearly the damn same thing...

Happy trails!

 

[jasonwill2]

Heh, this reminds me of when I was a young kid.

Closer to the 4th grade I started writing letters to "Satan" asking him for things I can't really remember now (probably stuff like super powers and stuff like that heh). Through out this whole time I never fathomed "God" and "Satan" because I never developed abstract reasoning. I always just consider myself as one of "Satan". I never denied God or accepted him, until my later years when I started attempting to fathom such things.

So to me, Satan was more of a natural thing to me because I never had anyone tell me, "this is how to be a Satanist".

I was just was, and I still am.

IMO, you can't sell your soul its already sold.

Exactly! I was a born a Satanist, I couldn't of been "initiated!" Duh! Why didn't I realize this!? (not being sarcastic btw, this is what my mental talk said in my head when I read this lol)

By dedicating your self to your chosen path you will have begun the process of Initiation, you will begin Initiating through your own practices and works. Initiation means to Evolve (magically) within the totality of your own Being towards Self-completion.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

So the first act of accepting my own darkness was the initiation? Interesting, as Satanic magic theorgy says, all that matters is already in the mind, everything else is props. I guess I didn't realize that that first moment of declaring myself a Satanist would be the "ritual"... hmmm, at that exact moment, I had accidentally evoked a succubus :drool: That experience was my "initiation", one that felt very good.

Initiation is probably a bad word for anything -- it is the process of obtaining knowledge or in fact knowing it already. The term itself is almost wasted air when uttered. Anyway, it's typically used by Right Hand Path organizations and Left Hand Paths that borrow from them. Initiation implies exclusivity of knowledge that you must "do something to understand" but my experience has been that there really is no such thing. There is no monopoly of knowledge or super-secrets you cannot get through your own efforts without minimal assistance. You were born with the same capacities as nearly every other homo sapiens on this rock. The more occult groups and LHP prattle on about exclusive secrets, initiations, and more them more I laugh at them.. in general..

As you explore you will find that they have ripped off way more than they have originated -- often from obscure sources (Eastern Mysticism, Ancient Greek/Roman, or really old stuff like Mayan) and merely have repainted them with their favorite red and black colors. Often not siting sources, or admitting that what they are illustrating is an adaptation. CoS is as guilty of this as ToS, ONA, and others. Originality died with Austin Osman Spare I'm afraid.

All of the "secrets" of the ancients were exposed by Crowley... Everyone else just remixed his albums. Trust me on this... You can read his material and Spare's and know EVERYTHING. =) I was a student of western occultism way before I was a Satanist. You can buy your initiation at Amazon.com now so why bother with these silly folks if you need a chat room there are forums that are free. Some research will have you knowing that Xeper=True Will(Crowley)=Nirvana(Eastern Religions)=etc. Yep, they're just borrowed ideas. Certainly, adherents to any of these will tell you they aren't bootlegging it but.. yep.. They are.. They had plenty of time to read the same books I did. Organizations like ToS strike me as much more "Grey" than black... Any conception of "Oversoul"/"True Will"/"etc" moves you directly to the RHP category as far as I'm concerned -- LHP people don't believe in these things typically. Other than name I feel Xeper/Thelema are nearly the damn same thing...

Happy trails!

They say that "there is nothing new under the sun", so I see what you mean. I guess everyone just has their different take on the same thought, and it's no different here.

 

[Adramelek]

Some research will have you knowing that Xeper=True Will(Crowley)=Nirvana(Eastern Religions)=etc. Yep, they're just borrowed ideas.

The word Xeper is an English translation of an ancient Egyptian verb meaning to Come Into Being which is over 5,000 years old. So it could be said that Xeper is the "original McCoy".

Xeper.
/Adramelek\​

 

[Mindmaster]

The word Xeper is an English translation of an ancient Egyptian verb meaning to Come Into Being which is over 5,000 years old. So it could be said that Xeper is the "original McCoy".

Xeper.
/Adramelek\​

It is what it is... a 5,000 year old hammer used to hit a 36 year old nail. Egypt was all the rage when Crowley was constructing his systems of magick although certainly we know way more now than he did about some of the particulars. He was literally obsessed with the subject and Greek pantheons as well. But, why stop with Set? He was a small part of the Egyptian pantheon and Horus (who Crowley adored) was his brother. Crowley talked of Horus in his Thelema, Setians talk of Set as if he was Horus. More changing paint? Both Gods historically were phased out by the Egyptians and combined into Amun-Ra. Why not use that one instead? =)

Xeper - Word of Set, Abrahadabra - Word of Horus. Aeons, etc... Borrowed. By my current understanding Setians have way more to do with Thelemites than Egyptians or Satanists. I don't mean that as an insult but simply an observation. I'm rather versed on all of these as my natural interests dictate.

Despite all of that thought I still can regard the Temple of Set as useful if what you would like to work with other like-minded folks and do some research into things that OTO or other Thelemic organizations might balk at. But, I am too black for ToS basically -- I don't buy the hype and won't because it cannot be proven independently. This fundamental weakness in position is nearly the same weakness as RHP organizations and therein lies the my struggle in being able to palate them. But, despite all that I can respect them a hell of a lot more than the current CoS. At least ToS >has< a direction...

 

[Adramelek]

Ave Mindmaster,

I am a magician who studies and practices Setian, Satanic, Thelemic, Chaos, and Hermetic magic, because they all not only appeal to me the most, but they have also worked for me consistently. However, I am first and foremost a Setian ever since the year 1989 c.e. You do bring up some interesting points in your posts, but I'm not here to try to convert or convince anybody to any one way or the other, that is antithetical to the LHP. All I wish to do is express my ideas and put forth examples of my experiences and either people can take them or leave them, it really doesn't matter to me. Plus, I am also here because I am interested in learning about others' magical practices, techniques, and experiences. My only agenda here is to explore and learn, and to perhaps once in a while teach. We all must find our own way and walk our own unique paths in the great journey of Life.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Adramelek]

But, I am too black for ToS basically

I sincerely doubt this. How can one be too "black" for an institution dedicated to the study and practice of the Black Arts in all of their forms?

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Kori Houghton]

Systems of symbolic initiation become popular in societies where the population is large, and individuals develop specialized functions to contribute to the society. In contemporary American society, rites of passage involve going through intricate consumer spending rituals: prom, sweet 16, driver's license and first car, wedding, over the top suburban birthday parties for toddlers, etc. So rather than rites of passage being a personal experience of a universal part of human life, our initiations serve to establish individual little slots in a massive targeted consumer demographic database.

On the other hand, the consumer control structure tries to keep us away from natural rites of passage that brought awareness to our ancestors. Technology and consumer sloganing dominate the processes of birth and death, puberty, aging, and everything in between.

Only a minority of humans alive today are born into a society that practices an authentic (not reconstructed) indigenous religion, with its legitimate rites of passage and initiations into the stages of life. The initiatory schools from classical antiquity were just one attempt to compensate for the influences of Mediterranean monotheisms millennia ago. None of the ancient initiatory schools had any lasting impact on the future development of human civilization, IMO, because secrecy only serves to further marginalize natural rites of passage that should be part of every life.

 

[Kori Houghton]

1. Initiation= to cause or facilitate the beginning of the process which leads to Self-Becoming.
2. Initiating= the actual living and manifesting the process of Self-Becoming, "I Am Becoming".
3. Initiated= "I Have Become" or "I Have Come Into Being," a.k.a...

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

According to Darwin's theory of evolution, every event in the universe is an initiation (a beginning) of something new coming into being, while many things are passing away This process is not limited to human beings. All things in existence manifest this process. Humans, IMO, can be aware of how the process is happening for them, but we do not have the power to start or stop the process, or control its outcome except in very minute ways.

 

[Adramelek]

According to Darwin's theory of evolution, every event in the universe is an initiation (a beginning) of something new coming into being, while many things are passing away This process is not limited to human beings. All things in existence manifest this process. Humans, IMO, can be aware of how the process is happening for them, but we do not have the power to start or stop the process, or control its outcome except in very minute ways.

The Universe is always evolving and expanding. My point refers to the microcosmic Initiatory process of individual Self-Aware Beings. The Magical Intiation of the magician is self-directed and I think we are absolutely capable of beginning and ending our Evolution of Being. Dedicating myself to the study and practice of the Black Arts and the LHP was me self-starting my own initiatory quest.

Or take for instance those who are capable of working and progressing in life who decide just to give up and become stagnate and to live off wellfare with no ambitions of self improvement, watching TV or playing video games all day, have brought to a screaching hault the process of their own self-evolution. And furthermore, "without purpose the force of mind must fail". Initiation, as something distinct and seperate from natural evolution, is a personal choice on the part of the individual conscious self.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Kori Houghton]

The Universe is always evolving and expanding. My point refers to the microcosmic Initiatory process of individual Self-Aware Beings. The Magical Intiation of the magician is self-directed and I think we are absolutely capable of beginning and ending our Evolution of Being. Dedicating myself to the study and practice of the Black Arts and the LHP was me self-starting my own initiatory quest.

Of course, I disagree Our 'Beings' on every level where we exist are evolving from the start of life. It is a contemporary notion derived from our majority Christian culture that we can choose, usually as part of a journey along a metaphysical path, to significantly change ourselves and take unrealistic responsibility for what we are. I certainly feel that individuals are free to believe in whatever they choose if that helps them make sense of their existence and live the fullest possible life.

Or take for instance those who are capable of working and progressing in life who decide just to give up and become stagnate and to live off wellfare with no ambitions of self improvement, watching TV or playing video games all day, have brought to a screaching hault the process of their own self-evolution.

Oh, my. Working for a living is not in any way related to the concepts of 'progressing in life' or 'self improvement' or 'self evolution'. The connection you are trying to make might be more at home on one of the FOX News cable channels. There is no clear linkage between living on welfare and having made a conscious, deliberate, considered, choice to live what, in the opinion of strangers, looks like a wasted life. I knew several people who lived on welfare when I was an adult literacy volunteer, and the students in question had mental health and/or developmental issues that were apparent to me within a few minutes of meeting them. I was relieved, actually, that the feeble social safety net we have was keeping them alive and relatively secure. In fact, I wanted them to have access to other official services because they had children.

And furthermore, "without purpose the force of mind must fail". Initiation, as something distinct and seperate from natural evolution, is a personal choice on the part of the individual conscious self.

Just for the record, I have not worked for over 20 years. I do watch some teevee, but never played a video game. (Am I missing something worth doing here?) I am not on the dole, but I live an extremely frugal life, which is worth the effort in exchange for not being part of the machine. Personally, I feel I've made much more progress as an evolved Being without being a rat in the race. I like myself a lot more, and I feel much more compassion and empathy for others than I did when I was a Yuppie getting told by my corporate division VP that I 'walked on water'. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Infinitum]

Of course, I disagree Our 'Beings' on every level where we exist are evolving from the start of life. It is a contemporary notion derived from our majority Christian culture that we can choose, usually as part of a journey along a metaphysical path, to significantly change ourselves and take unrealistic responsibility for what we are. I certainly feel that individuals are free to believe in whatever they choose if that helps them make sense of their existence and live the fullest possible life.

I wouldn't call it unrealistic. You can just as well look at personal evolution through cognitive psychology or other psychological and sociological models. The basis of cognitive therapy is being able to recognize harmful thought patterns and gain control over them. In the same way magick puts emphasis on self-examination and self-change. Being able to realize you truly are responsible for your own psyche is very empowering and has very little to do with the traditional Christian world view, which blamed outside forces (like demons) for the bad in your life. If you want to go looking for the true roots of initation as described here, you should look to cultures that practice meditation, or even further, into shamanism, where people have dived deep into their inner worlds in search for answers. How you make that contemporary I have no idea.

 

[Kori Houghton]

I wouldn't call it unrealistic. You can just as well look at personal evolution through cognitive psychology or other psychological and sociological models. The basis of cognitive therapy is being able to recognize harmful thought patterns and gain control over them.

I've known a few people who have seen a psychologist, and in some cases the 'thought patterns' were caused by undiagnosed and untreated physical problems (diseases unreated to mental health, so called). In the other cases, therapy produced no results. I am a skeptic.

In the same way magick puts emphasis on self-examination and self-change.

I've been involved with occult groups and societies on and off since 1976. In that time period I have never observed anyone achieving noticeable self-change thruough the practice of magic(k). The only change I have observed in a few individuals is a marked decrease in empathy coupled with a mistaken belief about events being under the power or control of themselves or others.

Being able to realize you truly are responsible for your own psyche is very empowering and has very little to do with the traditional Christian world view, which blamed outside forces (like demons) for the bad in your life.

Life experience has shown me that the mind (psyche) + body connection is extremely complex and poorly understood so far. If the practice of magic, meditation, or therapy, can theoretically change how we view ourselves and the world around us, including but not limited to other human beings, than our interaction with other humans and signifcant events beyond our control can alter the way we think and believe. Not 'demons' certainly, but often not under our control where we should be held responsible. Actually, Christianity does place far more responsibility upon the believer for their psychic state. Hence the conversion process, and all the jabber about 'backsliding', being 'born again', yadda yadda yadda. I live in an area with a significant percentage of fundamentalist Christian sects, but the 'demons' issue is almost unheard of as a cause of undesirable behavior. Rather it is a matter of being tempted or led astray, with the responsibility for the behavior or urge acted on laid solely upon the individual and their faith, or lack thereof, in their 'savior'.

If you want to go looking for the true roots of initation as described here, you should look to cultures that practice meditation, or even further, into shamanism, where people have dived deep into their inner worlds in search for answers. How you make that contemporary I have no idea.

From what I understand about shamanism, this is not a career path you choose, but rather something that requires uncommon (but real) abilities to learn and use successfully. Since I was a student in the 1970s, I knew many people who practiced mediation, self-taught or 'initiated'. Again, I found those who were faithful in devoting time and effort to their mediation practice to be less empathetic with people, and more likely to zone out and wait for orders from authority, even in an emergency. I am sure their bodily reactions to stress were much less harmful than those who actually responded to the situation, so good for them :yes: