Infallible prophet?

[gnostic]

Does being a prophet, make that person infallible?

That's seemed to be the case with what Islam teaches.

What do the Christians and Jews think?

Do you think prophet can't make mistake? Or are they just as human as the rest of us?

 

[Rakhel]

They are as human as you and me. But that is my personal opinion.

 

[wordmagnifiedabovenames]

Just human (in most cases,) and are therefore fallible.

 

[Breathe]

I don't believe in "prophets", per se - but the thing I consider closest to one, I do not think they are infallible.

"To err is human" and all that.

 

[Katzpur]

Of course prophets are fallible. They're human.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Does being a prophet, make that person infallible?

That's seemed to be the case with what Islam teaches.

What do the Christians and Jews think?

Do you think prophet can't make mistake? Or are they just as human as the rest of us?

According to the Bible yes. The prophets are infallible:

"Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God." Gen. 6:10

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:1

In Baha'i Scriptures Prophets are infallible. ​

"Know thou that the term ‘Infallibility’ hath numerous meanings and divers stations. In one sense it is applicable to the One Whom God hath made immune from error. Similarly it is applied to every soul whom God hath guarded against sin, transgression, rebellion, impiety, disbelief and the like. However, the Most Great Infallibility is confined to the One Whose station is immeasurably exalted beyond ordinances or prohibitions and is sanctified from errors and omissions. Indeed He is a Light which is not followed by darkness and a Truth not overtaken by error. Were He to pronounce water to be wine or heaven to be earth or light to be fire, He speaketh the truth and no doubt would there be about it; and unto no one is given the right to question His authority or to say why or wherefore." Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p.41​

"Know that infallibility is of two kinds: essential infallibility and acquired infallibility. In like manner there is essential knowledge and acquired knowledge; and so it is with other names and attributes. Essential infallibility is peculiar to the supreme Manifestation, for it is His essential requirement, and an essential requirement cannot be separated from the thing itself." Abdul'baha, Some Answered Questions, p.78 ​

 

[gnostic]

According to the Bible yes. The prophets are infallible:

"Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God." Gen. 6:10

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:1

Also according to the Genesis, you have Adam - man created in the image of God, hence perfect in form, and yet he made mistake, disobeying God about not eating the fruit that were forbidden to them. Then instead of accepting responsibility for his own action, he blamed Eve. The curse and expulsion (from Eden) placed on Adam was for disobedience and for not accepting responsibility.

That to me is not the sign of fallibility.

Again, in Genesis, the patriarch, Isaac favored his son Esau over Jacob, which seem to be the wrong choice. It would seem that his wife Rebecca was more wiser than him, because she made the right choice of favoring Jacob, and did enough right thing by sending him to her brother (and Jacob's uncle), to find a wife. What Isaac did was not a sin, but he did err.

And even though Jacob loved Rachel more than Leah, God favored Leah with more children. Like his father, Jacob didn't sin, but he did err too.

David was a prophet according to Islam (I don't know if he was one to the Baha'i), and was favored by God, who gave a new covenant that his royal line will have kingship (and one of his descendants would be the messiah). And yet David not only committed a sin of adultery with Bathsheba, but conspired to have her husband killed in battle so that he could marry her. That's not the sign of perfection nor of infallibility.

Solomon (who is a prophet according to Islam) for all his divine-given wisdom and the empire he built, had married many women from foreign civilisations and cultures, in his old age, began worshipping foreign deities and idols. God didn't punish Solomon, but he ensured that Solomon's royal descendants didn't rule all 12 tribes of the Israelites.
From the Merriam-Webster dictionary on infallible.

1
: incapable of error : unerring <an infallible memory>

2
: not liable to mislead, deceive, or disappoint : certain <an infallible remedy>

3
: incapable of error in defining doctrines touching faith or morals

It would seem that only Islam and Baha'i Faith considered prophets to be infallible.

 

[Katzpur]

According to the Bible yes. The prophets are infallible.

So what about the biblical prophets who proved to be wrong about things they prophesied?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Also according to the Genesis, you have Adam - man created in the image of God, hence perfect in form, and yet he made mistake, disobeying God about not eating the fruit that were forbidden to them.

In the Baha'i view, being made in the image of God does not mean perfect or infallible. In general human is created in the image of God, which means that human has "potentially" the capability of reflecting all the attributes of God. Just as a mirror that has the capability of reflecting the light of the Sun. But this mirror must become perfectly clean, only then it can perfectly reflect all the attributes of God.
Only In the case of Prophets, this mirror is perfect.

Again, in Genesis, the patriarch, Isaac favored his son Esau over Jacob, which seem to be the wrong choice. It would seem that his wife Rebecca was more wiser than him, because she made the right choice of favoring Jacob, and did enough right thing by sending him to her brother (and Jacob's uncle), to find a wife. What Isaac did was not a sin, but he did err.

What was the reason he favored Esau?

David was a prophet according to Islam (I don't know if he was one to the Baha'i),

Yes, all the prophets mentioned in Quran, are also prophets in Baha'i view.

And yet David not only committed a sin of adultery with Bathsheba,

Can you please quote from scriptures?

Solomon (who is a prophet according to Islam) for all his divine-given wisdom and the empire he built, had married many women from foreign civilisations and cultures, in his old age, began worshipping foreign deities and idols. God didn't punish Solomon, but he ensured that Solomon's royal descendants didn't rule all 12 tribes of the Israelites.

Can you please quote from scriptures regarding his worshipping idles?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So what about the biblical prophets who proved to be wrong about things they prophesied?

Prophets are those who are chosen and raised by God to guide people. those prophets are made infallible by God. Like Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus,...

 

[thedope]

Being has no requirements.

 

[Levite]

Does being a prophet, make that person infallible?

That's seemed to be the case with what Islam teaches.

What do the Christians and Jews think?

Do you think prophet can't make mistake? Or are they just as human as the rest of us?

It depends on who you ask. Amongst Orthodox Jews, the answer will likely be that prophets are infallible in their prophetic messages, but that they are fallible in their own personal affairs and judgment, when not conveying messages from God.

Amongst non-Orthodox Jews, some might give the Orthodox answer, but many others would probably say that prophets, being human and of incomplete understanding, can also make mistakes in their conveyance of prophecy.

 

[Rakhel]

I wasn't thinking along the lines of conveyance of prophesies.
I don't know why, I guess it never crossed my mind.
I was thinking gnostic was referring to basic human failings.

 

[gnostic]

Can you please quote from scriptures?

I must ask you, InvestigateTruth this. Are you not verse enough on the bible that you don't know the stories?

You don't need to remember all the details but the general framework of the biblical stories. I don't. And though I remember the Genesis best, I couldn't give you by heart, chapters and verses of everything that happen or said.

I will not quote, but I will provide sources, which you can you read yourself. I am not going to copy whole chapters, but the following chapters are short enough for you read in your own time.

1. 2 Samuel 11 about David and Bathsheba. The prophet Nathan confronted David on behalf of God in 2 Samuel 12.
2. About Solomon, read 1 Kings 11.

What was the reason he favored Esau?

From memory, Esau was a mighty hunter and Isaac loved him the best. God didn't because Esau's wives were foreign and pagans. Jacob was more of shepherd, and at that time, unmarried. Rebecca proved to be more wiser than Isaac, with regards to their sons. Read Genesis 27 and 28.

 

[Katzpur]

Prophets are those who are chosen and raised by God to guide people. those prophets are made infallible by God. Like Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus,...

I know what prophets are. My Church is led by one today. I just don't know where you get the idea that they are "made infallible by God."

In the 26th through the 28th chapters of Ezekiel, it was prophesied that the fortified city of Tyre would be conquered by the Babylonian King, Nebuchadnezzar, and that its riches would be taken to Babylon. While Babylon did lay seige to Tyre, the predicted destruction and plundering never took place. Tyre was eventually destroyed, but not by the Babylonians. Furthermore, the prophesy continued, saying that type would not be rebuilt but would cease to exist. It was, however, rebuilt in 125 A.D., became very prominent again and was destroyed by the Muslims in 1291. It was rebuilt again and continues to exist today as a fairly good sized town.

And what about when God told Jonah to prophecy to the people of Nineveh. According to the Bible, he did so, declaring that the people would be destroyed in 40 days. There weren't any conditions attached to that prophesy. It was a firm, imminent prediction of doom. But when the people repented, God decided not to destroy them -- much to the embarrassment of Jonah. Jonah was, in fact, really angry with God, apparently for making him look bad. I guess even back then there were people who believed prophets had to be infallible in order to have been called by God.

 

[gnostic]

In the 26th through the 28th chapters of Ezekiel, it was prophesied that the fortified city of Tyre would be conquered by the Babylonian King, Nebuchadnezzar, and that its riches would be taken to Babylon. While Babylon did lay seige to Tyre, the predicted destruction and plundering never took place. Tyre was eventually destroyed, but not by the Babylonians. Furthermore, the prophesy continued, saying that type would not be rebuilt but would cease to exist. It was, however, rebuilt in 125 A.D., became very prominent again and was destroyed by the Muslims in 1291. It was rebuilt again and continues to exist today as a fairly good sized town.

you're right. Tyre had fallen to the Macedonians, not to the Babylonians. Alexander the Great succeeded when Nebuchadnezzar II didn't.

Jericho was supposed to be remain in ruin and uninhabited from its fall to Joshua to forward, and yet it was repopulated in 9th century BCE.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I must ask you, InvestigateTruth this. Are you not verse enough on the bible that you don't know the stories?

Not all the details and stories in the Bible. But also, I don't think those stories as known or understood by people are mentioned in the same way in Bible. i think it's important to refer to the exact verses.
I read some of those and get back to you.

 

[gnostic]

Not all the details and stories in the Bible. But also, I don't think those stories as known or understood by people are mentioned in the same way in Bible. i think it's important to refer to the exact verses.
I read some of those and get back to you.

I don't want to sound brutish, but to understand the stories you need to read the relevant chapters I have given, in order to understand my points. Only then, can you understand the context of both the stories and my points for making them.

Too many times, Christians and Muslims use small snippet of verses, and twisted the context of the story-line or law or prophecy, to suit their agenda, without giving due consideration of the rest of the texts, surrounding a single verse or two.

The chapters are not long, so it shouldn't be a problem. If you don't read the chapters given, then it is your damn problem if you don't understand the significances of stories.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I just don't know where you get the idea that they are "made infallible by God."

God sends the prophets as the educator of mankind. The prophets teach not only by words, but also by their actions. How would God raise a prophet to teach and educate mankind, if this educator himself is not perfect and makes mistakes and says wrong things?
That's why, for example, according to Bible, Noah and Job were "perfect".

There weren't any conditions attached to that prophesy. It was a firm, imminent prediction of doom. But when the people repented, God decided not to destroy them

If they repented and God didn't fulfill His promise to doom, then this was a Test for those people to accept and submit to the decision of God. God didn&#8217;t need to mention before it was conditional. People needed to accept God's decision, so, they may pass the test. The purpose of God was to test and prove people.

As It was written in Bible:

1 THESSALONIANS 2:4 NKJ
4 . . . even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts

-- much to the embarrassment of Jonah.

Wouldn't be this your own conclusion?

 

[thedope]

A prophet advocates for a cause or an idea, as such they are only as fallible as the cause or idea.