Indianapolis Catholic School Will Fire Gay Teacher to Avoid Upsetting the Church

[metis]

But isn't the fact that they live a lifestyle that isn't acceptable in terms of their faith automatically teaching them a theology

If that lifestyle is broadcast, yes there's likely to be a problem. But what if it's not?

And how far do we go to purge the teaching staff, especially since there are so many different ways to sin. For example, would Trump be able to teach at your school? If so, why with all that he has said and done? And if not, then you realize that homosexuality is only one "sin" of many that could be used as some sort of litmus test.

Except that we have to ask ourselves are homosexual tendencies actually sin? I cannot see how it is. OTOH, I can understand parochial schools dismissing teachers who openly violate church teachings, and I would support them being dismissed.

Even as a pastor, there are Biblical standards for the position which are higher than the rank and file.

Supposedly-- but they're human too, and we shouldn't forget that.

Yes, I do believe God made us all... but notice what are the demands once one receives the Lordship of Jesus Christ-even as there is forgiveness through the process:

But what I posted doesn't disagree with that as I said that homosexuality (the impulse) is not in and of itself sinful but acting on it may be seen as such. Thus, it's the action that's important.

If your pastor tells a lie, should he be fired? How about if he gets a speeding ticket? How about if he eats too much ("gluttony"), which is considered one of the "Seven Deadly Sins"? So, if these are all sins, why ignore them and hype homosexual behavior?

Also, remember that I am not a biblical literalist, nor do I believe in biblical inerrancy, thus I tend to see much of scripture projecting cultural values sometimes as being God's values. Now which is which is the tough nut to crack.

On the topic, is the condemnation of homosexuality from God or from Jewish culture almost 2000 years ago? How can one know for sure which it is? Since we now know that at last most homosexuality is based on genes, and since we know that even our cousins (monkeys and chimps and gorillas) have some homosexuality in their groupings, why would God make them as such and then condemn them if they act on what's biologically driven?

Anyway, we're sorta straying off on a tangent with this, so I'll let you have the last word-- but it better be good!

 

[ecco]

ecco previously...

1. The above is not an analogy.
2. What happened here does not make God look bad, just some of His followers.

Things like supporting slavery make god look bad. It's OK for me, an atheist to say that. It's not indicative that I believe in God. But you do. So, in order to communicate with you about your beliefs, it is sometimes necessary to comment using terms relatable to you.
​

True. If you're 4.
Your red herring post is meaningless.

Once again you make baseless assertions. You posted what you thought was an analogy. It wasn't. Why is pointing out that your Bible God supported slavery a divergence? Is it because you can't deal with it?

That's not my problem.

 

[ecco]

Whatever happened to don't ask, don't tell.?

Is that your motto?

 

[ecco]

...nor making anybody feel uncomfortable being around an openly gay co-worker?

Why do you feel uncomfortable being around an openly gay people?

 

[ecco]

You should start by noting that Catholic charity work is extensive and widely considered a crucial part of the nation’s social safety net. By itself, Catholic Charities USA, has more than 2,500 local agencies that serve 10 million people annually, 34 percent of all nonprofit social-service charity.

Tax charity? What a brilliant move

Built with tax-exempt dollars...

Net worth: $100 million

Net worth: $300 million


The good preachers throw all the collection plate money up to God. God keeps what He needs and what comes down the good preachers keep.

Is that the charity you were talking about?

 

[Darkforbid]

Built with tax-exempt dollars...

Net worth: $100 million

Net worth: $300 million


The good preachers throw all the collection plate money up to God. God keeps what He needs and what comes down the good preachers keep.

Is that the charity you were talking about?

No did you try reading the post you've quoted

 

[SugarOcean]

ecco previously...

1. The above is not an analogy.
2. What happened here does not make God look bad, just some of His followers.

Things like supporting slavery make god look bad. It's OK for me, an atheist to say that. It's not indicative that I believe in God. But you do. So, in order to communicate with you about your beliefs, it is sometimes necessary to comment using terms relatable to you.
​

Once again you make baseless assertions. You posted what you thought was an analogy. It wasn't. Why is pointing out that your Bible God supported slavery a divergence? Is it because you can't deal with it?

That's not my problem.

Yes, it is your problem. As your problem is deeply held publicly displayed hatred of Christians. Christophobia, as it is called now days. A form of bigotry.

I did post an analogy.
And I would speak about the slavery that is talked about in the Bible, but that would not help your ignorance. Your hatred for Christians is going to eat you alive. That too is your problem.

 

[ecco]

Jesus is the manifested perfect will of God.

I thought you believed Jesus is God? In that case, your comment is...

Jesus is the manifested perfect will of Jesus.
God is the manifested perfect will of God.
Jesus/God/Holy Ghost is the manifested perfect will of Jesus/God/Holy Ghost.
Yeah. That makes sense.

 

[ecco]

Hmmmm.... And I thought it was Adam that sinned.

“Blame doesn't empower you. It keeps you stuck in a place you don't want to be because you don't want to make the temporary, but painful decision, to be responsible for the outcome of your own life's happiness.”
― Shannon L. Alder

Please answer why God blamed Adam & Eve when he knew aforehand that they would succumb to temptation.

Please don't use the free will cop-out. Omniscience is omniscience.

 

[ecco]

We don't punish organizations-- we punish people in organizations that commit crimes.

It's interesting that you believe that. I hear reports every week of companies being fined for doing something illegal. I rarely hear of company executives even being indicted.

Therefore, to blame an entire organization for what a small minority has done is unethical.

So when a drug company falsely advertises the benefits of a drug, we should just fine the marketing division. Uh huh, That'll work.

 

[ecco]

Yes, it is your problem. As your problem is deeply held publicly displayed hatred of Christians. Christophobia, as it is called now days. A form of bigotry.

My very close Christian relatives do not believe I have a hatred of Christians. Since you do, you should find it easy to post some of my comments where I demonstrate a hatred of Christians.

I did post an analogy.

Not even close.

And I would speak about the slavery that is talked about in the Bible, but that would not help your ignorance.

Are you admitting God approved of slavery?

Exodus 21:7[edit]
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

Deuteronomy 20:13[edit]
And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

Deuteronomy 20:14[edit]
But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

Your hatred for Christians is going to eat you alive. That too is your problem.

You are confusing disdain for bigots, homophobes, holier-than-thou know-it-alls, liars, braggarts, etc. of all religions and no religions with a "hatred for Christians". When it comes to contempt, I spread it equally. I have no problem with Donald Trump's Christian views, yet my disdain for him is far greater than my disdain for even self-righteous Christian fundies.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Built with tax-exempt dollars...

Net worth: $100 million

Net worth: $300 million


The good preachers throw all the collection plate money up to God. God keeps what He needs and what comes down the good preachers keep.

Is that the charity you were talking about?

I've gotten to the point where they and their 'benefactors' completely deserve each other.

 

[Kenny]

Please answer why God blamed Adam & Eve when he knew aforehand that they would succumb to temptation.

Please don't use the free will cop-out. Omniscience is omniscience.

So, you are saying that when your child lies, and you knew that they were going to, it is your fault?

 

[Kenny]

If that lifestyle is broadcast, yes there's likely to be a problem. But what if it's not?

And how far do we go to purge the teaching staff, especially since there are so many different ways to sin. For example, would Trump be able to teach at your school? If so, why with all that he has said and done? And if not, then you realize that homosexuality is only one "sin" of many that could be used as some sort of litmus test.

Except that we have to ask ourselves are homosexual tendencies actually sin? I cannot see how it is. OTOH, I can understand parochial schools dismissing teachers who openly violate church teachings, and I would support them being dismissed.

Yes, that is a conundrum to decide what is acceptable and what is not. And I suppose every organization has to decide what the lines are. But, it would appear to me, that sexual sins are a little more poignant that a speeding ticket. (God help me if speeding tickets disqualifies me)

Kinda difficult if the significant other comes in to say something and they say "this is my husband" or something along those line.

But there are always public schools. - And aren't there standards for teachers? If, as you say, why not Trump, why not any other person? Why not an alcoholic? A spouse abuser? (he doesn't do it at school)

You have to admit, there are standards.

Supposedly-- but they're human too, and we shouldn't forget that.

No we shouldn't. Mind you, in our church, it isn't that people with problems (porn, living together, homosexuality) doesn't disqualify them from serving. There is just a higher demand for those in authority.

But what I posted doesn't disagree with that as I said that homosexuality (the impulse) is not in and of itself sinful but acting on it may be seen as such. Thus, it's the action that's important.

And that is the point... it is the acting on it that makes the difference for someone in authority.

 

[Salvador]

Why do you feel uncomfortable being around an openly gay people?

I'm not, some of the nicest people I've known are gay.

 

[metis]

It's interesting that you believe that. I hear reports every week of companies being fined for doing something illegal. I rarely hear of company executives even being indicted.

Why did you quote the above but omit what I said immediately afterward about companies being sued?

So when a drug company falsely advertises the benefits of a drug, we should just fine the marketing division. Uh huh, That'll work.

Again, you purposely misrepresent what I was saying, and that is being dishonest. So, I have no interest in discussing much of anything with a person who acts in such a disingenuous manner.

 

[metis]

Kinda difficult if the significant other comes in to say something and they say "this is my husband" or something along those line.

I doubt that this is likely to happen, but if it did then a decision would likely have to be made.

And aren't there standards for teachers? If, as you say, why not Trump, why not any other person?

I just used him as an example, and it appears I got under your skin on that. Score one for me!

All too often we tend as Christians to focus in on sexual "deviancies" and hype them above other forms of deviancies. And is homosexual activity an actual deviancy considering the meshing of science with theology? To me, they have to fit together, albeit from somewhat different perspectives, or we're apt to sink into such "theological" debates such as "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?". I left the fundamentalist Protestant church I grew up in largely because of their anti-science dogma (anti-ToE) and their racism.

You have to admit, there are standards.

Of course, but the question is which standards are or are not reasonable? I cannot decide for the schools, for the diocese, or for the Jesuits, but I can still have opinions.

And that is the point... it is the acting on it that makes the difference for someone in authority.

To a point, yes, but generally speaking I'm not fond of double-standards when it comes to the issue of morality. .

 

[Kenny]

I doubt that this is likely to happen, but if it did then a decision would likely have to be made.

I just used him as an example, and it appears I got under your skin on that. Score one for me!

All too often we tend as Christians to focus in on sexual "deviancies" and hype them above other forms of deviancies. And is homosexual activity an actual deviancy considering the meshing of science with theology? To me, they have to fit together, albeit from somewhat different perspectives, or we're apt to sink into such "theological" debates such as "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?". I left the fundamentalist Protestant church I grew up in largely because of their anti-science dogma (anti-ToE) and their racism.
Of course, but the question is which standards are or are not reasonable? I cannot decide for the schools, for the diocese, or for the Jesuits, but I can still have opinions.

To a point, yes, but generally speaking I'm not fond of double-standards when it comes to the issue of morality. .

Metis,

I think we are pretty close to being on the same page and because we are different people, we are obviously going to have a different position.

I don't think we hype on sexual deviancies as much as it appears that every "anti-Christian" post always deals with it and so it appears that we are hyping on it. If the pastor steals from the till, he is out of position (in our church) and we try to help the person. If the pastor has a drug problem... he is out of his position and we try to help him. If the pastor is has an alcohol problem, he is out of position and we try to help him.

And in our church, if he is a racist, he is out of position.

And, no, you are not under my skin. I respect you too much!

 

[ecco]

Please answer why God blamed Adam & Eve when he knew aforehand that they would succumb to temptation.

Please don't use the free will cop-out. Omniscience is omniscience.

So, you are saying that when your child lies, and you knew that they were going to, it is your fault?

Why are you talking about lying? The only one who "lied" was God when He pretended He did not know that Adam & Eve would partake of the forbidden tree.


God instilled a level of morality into Adam & Eve just as He instilled a knowledge of speech. Based on the level of morality He instilled, and with the benefit of His omniscience, He knew they would succumb to temptation. When they did partake He blamed them and punished them and all their descendants, especially the women.

 

[ecco]

Maybe I'm stuck back in the 90's, but what was so immoral about neither putting a gay person on the spot by a sexual inquisition nor making anybody feel uncomfortable being around an openly gay co-worker?

Why do you feel uncomfortable being around an openly gay people?

I'm not, some of the nicest people I've known are gay.

Then why did you post...

Maybe I'm stuck back in the 90's, but what was so immoral about neither putting a gay person on the spot by a sexual inquisition nor making anybody feel uncomfortable being around an openly gay co-worker?

...if you weren't the person feeling uncomfortable?