In Genesis the plants were created before the sun moon and stars

[Eli G]

Sometimes is not that "a few beliefs that are based on single (or a few) Bible verses", but that the person speaking doesn't have enough knowledge about its content.

 

[YoursTrue]

Proverbs 4:18 -
The path of the righteous is like the morning sun, shining ever brighter till the full light of day.

 

[Eli G]

Proverbs 4:18 -
The path of the righteous is like the morning sun, shining ever brighter till the full light of day.

Yes. We're always learning.

And we also have to teach while we are learning, to help others also learn the same things and they share later.

Who can know all things? Only God. Jesus himself recognized that there were things that only his Father knew, and he also said that in heaven his Father would continue to teach him amazing things.

Matt. 24:36 Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

John 5:20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel.

It is a privilege being taught by God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes. We're always learning.

And we also have to teach while we are learning, to help others also learn the same things and they share later.

Who can know all things? Only God. Jesus himself recognized that there were things that only his Father knew, and he also said that in heaven his Father would continue to teach him amazing things.

Matt. 24:36 Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

John 5:20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel.

It is a privilege being taught by God.

That is for sure. I remember before I studied the Bible as the word of God and after I began studying it as the word of God. My family and associates recognized the difference in my behavior. (I'm not perfect though...yet...still waiting...looking forward..)

 

[excreationist]

Sometimes is not that "a few beliefs that are based on single (or a few) Bible verses", but that the person speaking doesn't have enough knowledge about its content.

I guess you're saying that applies to all the Christians who believe that the Bible says that the sun, moon, and stars were created on day 4.... including those who created Bible translations and decided not to say that the sun, moon, and stars already existed before day 4. I mean Bible translations should make the actual meaning of things (about the sun, moon, and stars already existing) as clear as possible.

 

[Eli G]

I guess you're saying that applies to all the Christians who believe that the Bible says that the sun, moon, and stars were created on day 4.... including those who created Bible translations and decided not to say that the sun, moon, and stars already existed before day 4. I mean Bible translations should make the actual meaning of things (about the sun, moon, and stars already existing) as clear as possible.

They are included ... but those ideas are not the only errors of interpretation and/or translation.

When translations are doubtful, turning to the original languages is a very useful resource.

Today we have thousands of biblical manuscripts written in their original languages and which are very easy to access. In addition, there are dictionaries and grammars of these languages that make the work much easier for those who wish to learn. Isn't that fascinating about Scriptures that were completed thousands of years ago?

There is no justification for two people who want to be able to study difficult-to-understand Bible topics in a peaceful and helpful environment.

 

[Kenny]

Even though many atheists mention for fun a supposed divine responsibility for microbes, bacteria and other microorganisms that do harm human health, the truth is that these organisms should have lived in their own natural environments without being touched, and thus would not have affected humans while doing the work for which they were created.

Even so, under the direction of the kingdom of God, humans in the future will receive instructions that they must follow to avoid harm of this kind. How much we need the elevated education that the Creator of everything can offer us!!!

Is. 11:6 The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb,
And with the young goat the leopard will lie down,
And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7 The cow and the bear will feed together,
And their young will lie down together.
The lion will eat straw like the bull.
8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra,
And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.
9 They will not cause any harm
Or any ruin in all my holy mountain,
Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
As the waters cover the sea.
10 In that day the root of Jesʹse will stand up as a signal for the peoples.
To him the nations will turn for guidance,el
And his resting-place will become glorious.

Amazing statement… and so true

 

[YoursTrue]

????? Are you for real?

Did you understood something of what my comment explains about what the Bible says?

I think it could possibly be another realm of existence. He did say he could be in a simulation.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes. We're always learning.

And we also have to teach while we are learning, to help others also learn the same things and they share later.

Who can know all things? Only God. Jesus himself recognized that there were things that only his Father knew, and he also said that in heaven his Father would continue to teach him amazing things.

Matt. 24:36 Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

John 5:20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel.

It is a privilege being taught by God.

Exactly as God spoke and reasoned in the book of Job.

 

[Pete in Panama]

I realize that about land measurements. So the horizon is not good enough to realize it's just not that flat? Please excuse. I'm excusing myself from further discussion now about whether the earth is a flat something.

Sounds good, thanks for your time, & cheers!

 

[wellwisher]

Just in case people didn't notice it before, this is what it says in Genesis 1:
View attachment 90402As you can see there are similarities between days 1 and 4, days 2 and 5, and days 3 and 6. See:

Framework interpretation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It has a kind of poetic structure so it might not be intended to be taken 100% literally and historically.

Young earth creationists take it literally and say that the original light source was God and it was then replaced on day 4. Then in Revelation this reverts back:
Revelation 21:23

Revelation 22:5

It is a problem for old earth creationists though they would say that on day 3 the plants were receiving light from the sky but the sun moon and stars only became distinct in the sky a long time later. (day-age theory)

https://www.oldearth.org/old_earth_creationism.htm

Btw I’ve heard YECs say that God didn’t create the sun first to not place a lot of importance on it since some people worshipped the sun.

Those steps are consistent with the Bible using a modern science image of the early earth, before science. When the earth was just forming, along with the solar system, the earth was very hot, molten and very steamy; supercritical water. You would not be able to see outer space from the molten earth's surface, as supercritical steam rose into the atmosphere and then stormed down as torrential rains; day 2. The oceans were mostly in the atmosphere, being flash boiled again and again, rising into the upper atmosphere, then raining down to cool and then flash boil on the molten surface.

On day 3; plants and land, the ground of the molten earth has started to cooled enough to become firm; land. The water is still being evaporated but not as violently boiled. But the sky is still very cloudy. Genesis 2:6 water rose as a mist and covered the land, watering the earth. There is dense fog from underground hot springs. There is also intense lightning, helping to form the precursors of life; amino acids and hydrocarbons; Miller Experiments and abiogenesis leading to plant life.

On day 4, the heat of the inner earth is retreating inward and the land is now even cooler, with the mist abating. The stormy rains are slowing and the sky is clearing, allowing the sun and night sky to be seen; planets and stars now appear in the clarity.

These are quite reasonable steps that are still a good science scenario.

In science, seeing is believing, nobody could see the stars and planets until day four, when the atmosphere cleared. The first proof of concept; there are stars, appears on day four. Before that it, it would be science speculation to say the stars had formed. They were not yet confirmed by repeatable visual evidence, until day four; clear atmosphere for group observations and confirmation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Those steps are consistent with the Bible using a modern science image of the early earth, before science. When the earth was just forming, along with the solar system, the earth was very hot, molten and very steamy; supercritical water. You would not be able to see outer space from the molten earth's surface, as supercritical steam rose into the atmosphere and then stormed down as torrential rains; day 2. The oceans were mostly in the atmosphere, being flash boiled again and again, rising into the upper atmosphere, then raining down to cool and then flash boil on the molten surface.

On day 3; plants and land, the ground of the molten earth has started to cooled enough to become firm; land. The water is still being evaporated but not as violently boiled. But the sky is still very cloudy. Genesis 2:6 water rose as a mist and covered the land, watering the earth. There is dense fog from underground hot springs. There is also intense lightning, helping to form the precursors of life; amino acids and hydrocarbons; Miller Experiments and abiogenesis leading to plant life.

On day 4, the heat of the inner earth is retreating inward and the land is now even cooler, with the mist abating. The stormy rains are slowing and the sky is clearing, allowing the sun and night sky to be seen; planets and stars now appear in the clarity.

These are quite reasonable steps that are still a good science scenario.

In science, seeing is believing, nobody could see the stars and planets until day four, when the atmosphere cleared. The first proof of concept; there are stars, appears on day four. Before that it, it would be science speculation to say the stars had formed. They were not yet confirmed by repeatable visual evidence, until day four; clear atmosphere for group observations and confirmation.

Your timing is still way off. Are you talking six literal days? Are you aware that we can date events in the past?

 

[excreationist]

Those steps are consistent with the Bible using a modern science image of the early earth, before science.

I thought according to science there were sea creatures before land vegetation.... but sea creatures were day 5.

On day 3; plants and land, the ground of the molten earth has started to cooled enough to become firm; land. The water is still being evaporated but not as violently boiled. But the sky is still very cloudy. Genesis 2:6 water rose as a mist and covered the land, watering the earth. There is dense fog from underground hot springs. There is also intense lightning, helping to form the precursors of life; amino acids and hydrocarbons; Miller Experiments and abiogenesis leading to plant life.

On day 4, the heat of the inner earth is retreating inward and the land is now even cooler, with the mist abating. The stormy rains are slowing and the sky is clearing, allowing the sun and night sky to be seen; planets and stars now appear in the clarity.

The sun can be visible through clouds but I don't think it makes sense for the stars to be visible around the same time (also through clouds). I mean the sun is so bright that it blinds you if you look at it for very long - while it can take about 20 minutes for your eyes to adjust and see stars well.

 

[Pete in Panama]

" profound truths".
Interesting concept.
Care to share an example or two?

Not knowing what they are I don't know
why a fictitious presentation might be
necessary. I doubt it is...

Interesting. What I'm getting from you is that you've never found any significant value in fiction. iirc the puritans hated fiction and they said that since it was not true it should be shunned. My understanding from you is that you're not really saying how you feel about fiction other than you want to disagree w/ anything I say.

We all know there's a lot of bibles

Fewer know the history of how the religion was spread by
coercion, physical and mental....

You're not saying that every single one of the billions --most of the human race-- report seeing value in the Bible because of "coercion, physical and mental" are you? Please let me know what you think after mulling this through.

...Few have read much in those so- popular books.

Fewer still agree on what it says.

As for the popularity of what people find in said book...

Do you realize that earlier you were saying "bibles" as in many different bibles? Now it seems you're saying "book" like there's one underlying common book. Is it possible for us to pick one position here?

...that's not so mysterious

You want to know what "they found"?
I can tell you.
People find whatever the want to find.
And they have god on their side to prove
they are right.

Study the Bible and there it is!


For those who find that too much work they can always
go pascale wager. Let's see: Bliss, or, torture.
Guess I will buy a bible,

As to why the book has so little actual content
and literary merit, you didn't address why a god
wrote such a sorry book.

You've expressed this opinion and I thank you for your input.

 

[Bear Wild]

Just in case people didn't notice it before, this is what it says in Genesis 1:
View attachment 90402As you can see there are similarities between days 1 and 4, days 2 and 5, and days 3 and 6. See:

Framework interpretation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It has a kind of poetic structure so it might not be intended to be taken 100% literally and historically.

Young earth creationists take it literally and say that the original light source was God and it was then replaced on day 4. Then in Revelation this reverts back:
Revelation 21:23

Revelation 22:5

It is a problem for old earth creationists though they would say that on day 3 the plants were receiving light from the sky but the sun moon and stars only became distinct in the sky a long time later. (day-age theory)

https://www.oldearth.org/old_earth_creationism.htm

Btw I’ve heard YECs say that God didn’t create the sun first to not place a lot of importance on it since some people worshipped the sun.

It's a myth for those of that religion. It contains a truth of relationship but should never be applied to the actual historic events. I don't believe in it but many do. You need to understand it within the context it was presented.

 

[YoursTrue]

Interesting. What I'm getting from you is that you've never found any significant value in fiction. iirc the puritans hated fiction and they said that since it was not true it should be shunned. My understanding from you is that you're not really saying how you feel about fiction other than you want to disagree w/ anything I say.

You're not saying that every single one of the billions --most of the human race-- report seeing value in the Bible because of "coercion, physical and mental" are you? Please let me know what you think after mulling this through.

Do you realize that earlier you were saying "bibles" as in many different bibles? Now it seems you're saying "book" like there's one underlying common book. Is it possible for us to pick one position here?

You've expressed this opinion and I thank you for your input.

Interesting point, Pete. Because sometimes fiction can bring out a point that gets to a person's heart in explaining a matter. Almost like poetry.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes. I've been reading about what flat-earthers believe and it has convinced me that some people are -- out of their minds if they believe that.

Now you know how it feels to talk with creationists.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The Creator of all bodies that exist in space organized the relationship of those three bodies while adapting the planet for life on it.

Actually, life adapted to the planet. Not the other way round.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In their own wild environment no animal eliminates another species completely

Apparently you have never heared of "invasive species". And that's just one example.
Species go extinct due to being outcompeted or out-hunted by other species all the time.

+99% of species that ever lived have gone extinct - and the vast majority of them before any kind of primate existed. If you think natural disaster was the only cause of all those extinctions, you might want to read up a bit.

because they do not eat out of vice or kill for the sake of killing... and they even live together at certain times when they are satiated or find solace after a long drought. Sometimes some even help each other, out of pure instinct. And then humans come and ruin everything.

You really are rather ignorant of how the wonderful, and harsh, world of biology works.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Compare this to the illustration of a son who does not want to follow his father's instructions in his house. The father tells him that if he is not going to follow his instructions then he has to leave his house, because he is not willing to suffer the harm that his son may cause or cause to himself under his own responsibility and because of underestimating the education of his father.

If that son suffers illnesses as a result of his bad behavior, he hurts himself and suffers, laments, dies... is it his father's fault?

Not always. But often times: yes.

It's called being a responsible parent.