I'm still working out the agnostic's p.o.v!

[The Great Architect]

Even though I read http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/agnostic/1284-agnosticism-overview.html, I'm still trying to figure out the agnostic's 'position', for myself. I'm not agnostic, but it seems like a fascinating viewpoint to hold! I was looking for :help: with some points, please!

Am I right, in thinking that there is much less vehemence (and even aggression), in the agnostic rejection of religion? Is this because agnostics have doubts, about the nature of God?

What separates agnostics and atheists, ideologically? Why not simply declare oneself and atheist, rather than being an agnostic?:run:

Thanks.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Agnostics only worship satan on special holidays, whereas atheists worship the dark lord each and every day.

 

[Humanistheart]

Even though I read http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/agnostic/1284-agnosticism-overview.html, I'm still trying to figure out the agnostic's 'position', for myself. I'm not agnostic, but it seems like a fascinating viewpoint to hold! I was looking for :help: with some points, please!

Am I right, in thinking that there seems to be much less vehemence (and even aggression), in the agnostic rejection of religion? Is this because agnostics have doubts, about the nature of God?

What separates agnostics and atheists, ideologically? Why not simply declare oneself and atheist, rather than being an agnostic?:run:

Thanks.

I think it's really quite different for every agnostic. And the position is not centered around a god. One could have daubs about, say, Buddhism, a religion with no god. Atheists, on the other hand, are specific, in that we distinctly hold there are no gods.

 

[Humanistheart]

Agnostics only worship satan on special holidays, whereas atheists worship the dark lord each and every day.

Gee how helpful. You should write a book. No one will read it but it will take up your time so you don't post this kind of annoying what not.

 

[The Great Architect]

Agnostics only worship satan on special holidays, whereas atheists worship the dark lord each and every day.

fair point!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Gee how helpful. You should write a book. No one will read it but it will take up your time so you don't post this kind of annoying what not.

Oh, I can write a book, post annoying what not, and chew gum at the same time.

 

[The Great Architect]

I think it's really quite different for every agnostic. And the position is not centered around a god. One could have daubs about, say, Buddhism, a religion with no god. Atheists, on the other hand, are specific, in that we distinctly hold there are no gods.

I'm keen to know, then, what those positions and differences are.

 

[lamplighter]

Am I right, in thinking that there is much less vehemence (and even aggression), in the agnostic rejection of religion? Is this because agnostics have doubts, about the nature of God?
What separates agnostics and atheists, ideologically? Why not simply declare oneself and atheist, rather than being an agnostic?:run:

Thanks.

The Agnostic view point doesn't mean the person is going to be more sympathetic towards Theists, for some Agnostics might find some religions claims to be the word of god repugnant. I don't think in practice the average Agnostic is going to appear any different than an Atheist, but Agnosticism isn't dogmatic like Atheism is, so theoretically Agnostics aren't going to be as philosophically confrontational as their Atheist counterparts.

What separates us from Atheists is how we view the question of "Is there god(s)?". Agnostics think the question is unanswered, whether it concerns just them, or all of humanity, and until that question is pursued further and answered we make no claims. Atheists on the other hand think there is nothing that resembles a god, and that since there seems to be no empirical evidence to support the theory of a god that the question is also pointless. I don't think there's any Agnostics who find the question ultimately meaningless but there's probably those who think the question is pointless to ask right now. There have been numerous discussions on the distinction between Agnostics and Atheists, so you'll find allot of differences seem to be more of an argument over semantics, or Agnostics are just "fence sitters" Then of course there's the messy business of defining "what is god", but you'll get to bear witness to all those ramblings in due time if you stick around RF long enough.

 

[Willamena]

Am I right, in thinking that there is much less vehemence (and even aggression), in the agnostic rejection of religion? Is this because agnostics have doubts, about the nature of God?

Ideally, agnosticism cannot reject the belief in "existence of God" and neither can it embrace it. It can embrace religion wholeheartedly. To me it's not about doubt, though to some agnostics it is. To me it's about understanding the way in which we know and hold ideas, and hence, the way in which the ideas we know and hold are not ours.

Vehemence not required (not even for atheists).

What separates agnostics and atheists, ideologically?

I think to most agnostics very little separates them, but it depends on how one defines oneself in one's atheism.

Why not simply declare oneself and atheist, rather than being an agnostic?

Since the two ideas have virtually come together into one for me, I, for one, have.

 

[Humanistheart]

Lamp, is your picture from "Rejected"? Love that short film!

 

[Pacificus]

I believe the existence of God is incapable of proof. Because of this belief, I do not believe in a god of any sort. Agnostic-atheist. The two can go together quite well.

 

[LarryK32]

I believe the existence of God is incapable of proof. Because of this belief, I do not believe in a god of any sort. Agnostic-atheist. The two can go together quite well.

I believe the existance is possible due to the fact neither side can prove it. I do believe one does exist though I do not have any proof. Agnostic-Theist. Depends on the specific agnostic.

 

[JMorris]

i long ago gave up caring about whether god exists or not. & if he does exist, he dosent seem to care if people know either. if he wanted people to know, he'd let them know, if he wanted worship, he'd create a religion, he dosent, so he either dosent exist, or dosent care.

 

[PhAA]

fair point!

You're really clueless if you believed that.

Agnosticism: view that, you cannot prove or disprove the existence of any higher being.
Atheism: view that, a higher being doesn't exist.

 

[Morpheus]

You're really clueless if you believed that.

Agnosticism: view that, you cannot prove or disprove the existence of any higher being.
Atheism: view that, a higher being doesn't exist.

OK now that makes sense. Although a theist, I totally relate to the above view of Agnostic. I know that God cannot be proved or disproved, so I see why someone would be agnostic. In fact, by that definition, I was agnostic before becoming theistic. IMHO, no one - and I mean NO ONE, knows the absolute truth - about anything, so to take a position either way is painting oneself into a corner with no where to go philosphically speaking. No problem sitting on a fence when the cow pasture on either side is so full of **********.

 

[evane123]

Agnostics only worship satan on special holidays, whereas atheists worship the dark lord each and every day.

I think you are stating a thing that is not true.

 

[Luminous]

I think you are stating a thing that is not true.

Yes, I also believe he is saying a thing which is not
but I believe he was doing it as a joke.

 

[MacNova]

There are many "definitions" for agnostic look it up in 10 dictionaries as with the word god and you will get 10 different definitions. I use the literal "meaning" of the word which defines itself. A-gnostic without knowledge.

SO agnostic in this respect just means not a rejection of god or religion just an honest answer to a question. In short I don't know. Which is the most honest answer I can possibly imagine.

The atheists I have talked to have a lack of belief which just seems to be a carefully constructed answer to avoid the burden of proof the demand upon a claim being made. But again I don't know.

Speaking to A-theism meaning without god, again just means what it says.

Theism and atheism speak to beliefs or the lack there of. While Agnostic and gnostic speak to knowledge.

Me being agnostic can only say that I do not pretend to know weather or not god exists. I'm afraid I'm not that smart.

If a Christian or Muslim chooses to believe in god who am I to condemn it or demand proof. As far as I can see religion is just a philosophy that need no proof. Much like literature, music, the arts ect. If I believe a song is truly beautiful or a poem means this to me. Must I prove it to anyone? Could I?

I try to see things for what they are accept them for they represent and not try to put my own definition to them.

If you say you believe in god and someone else expresses a lack of belief in god and all I can say is I don't really know, which one of the three are closest to the truth?

 

[Freedomelf]

As it is written,"Ye shall know them by their fruits." This is true for any religion. If a person shows kindness, honestly, love and sincerity in their daily lives, then it doesn't matter what religion, if any, they choose to believe. It is obviously the right path for them, and no one should try to sway them from it. They will certainly not go to Hell if it produces such good "fruit." On the other hand, a person of any religion who does not show such fruits will not be "saved" by their religion or their God, no matter how fervent their belief in it.