I'm against abortion myself, but....

[DallasApple]

I think I disagree with you here. What's good for the gander is surely good for the goose. If I decided to have a child when the father insisted on abortion I would be happy to take full responsibility and send him packing. Of course if he later decided he wanted to know his own child there would have to be some renegotiation.

I personally might feel the same way..IOW if I had a father who felt that way I might say well then "get away from me and my baby"...But I dont think "legally" that men shoudl be able to just walk off..Its not about the mother or the father.Its about the child thats already here.Why should they be at the disadvantage simply because thier mother decided not to abort them against the fathers wishes?

Blessings

Dallas

 

[rheff78]

I am a pill baby, my mother was on birth control when I was conceived. No birth control is foolproof.

One thought: I do not judge women who do this. I don't say to women that I think they are a murderer because they had an abortion. If they were thinking about getting one, I may try to talk to them about, try to talk them out of it. I also don't think they are bad people.
That does not make me pro-choice, though.

I'm not saying you are, but do you support the right of women to choose to have an abortion? I'm not asking what you would do personally.

 

[ChristineES]

I'm not saying you are, but do you support the right of women to choose to have an abortion? I'm not asking what you would do personally.

There are other things to do with babies. For one thing, there are people who want to adopt. If I could afford it, I would take some of these babies.

So I don't approve of choice, as I said earlier.

But at the same time I have never been in some of these situations, if I did, maybe I would rethink my belief (or maybe not).

 

[Alceste]

Well.... that's kinda my point.... "society in general" tends to be a bully and a dictator... I think there is a bit more to "justice" than which mob is larger.... which is why I agree with your point about democracy.

Amen.... that's why I think that it is important for people to be honest with what they believe... and if they believe in the dignity of the human person to be PRO-LIFE ------> and not be a pro-choice voter etc. Too many people come to agree with the basic moral principles, but for some reason can't get past the "pro-life means I'm intollerant" fear.... sometimes doing the right thing can be difficult, but in this case I'm sure they could work towards that "life-affirming atmosphere" if they would just have the courage to back their convictions.

Peace

Well it would certainly be costly for the church to support unwed mothers or disadvantaged families for as long as they need it. Perhaps this is why so many religious people opt for the "we're going to force you to have children against your better judgment and then leave you alone to look after them" route instead of the "we love you and your unborn child so much we have created a safe place for both of you" route.

 

[rheff78]

There are other things to do with babies. For one thing, there are people who want to adopt. If I could afford it, I would take some of these babies.

So I don't approve of choice, as I said earlier.

But at the same time I have never been in some of these situations, if I did, maybe I would rethink my belief (or maybe not).

Ok, why are you being so evasive? I'm asking, do you support others right to choose or not? It's a yes or no question. NO circumstances. Yes or no?

 

[ChristineES]

It is the apathy of some Churches that help make the problem worse. The Bible teaches us to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. I know that a few Churches do take care of people but there are others who keep buying more expensive PA systems.
Christians are not supposed to judge, but to have mercy. I think there are some Christians who forget that.

 

[DallasApple]

I have mixed and deep emotions about this..I had a baby at 14 in the 8th grade.But I have also had abortions(yes ..thats plural)...I have gone through periods of self loathing,self hatred,regret and unbelievable remorse.I have to listen to people call me a murderer and a monster..And even here on this thread I should have to go to jail now to pay for it and be considered a criminal.

I can not at this point say it should be out an out illegal..Even though knowing what I know I would try and talk a woman out of it.And I would never do it again myself.But I would not have the gall to tell another woman her choice was gone..I do however strongly feel that the cut off for beign able to have one should be in the 1st trimester..Actually I'de be tempted to cut it off after about 8 weeks...

I get sick to my stomach and cringe knowing that late term abortions are performed.My first son was born at 33 weeks..7 weeks early..I just cant imagine that I could have even at that point had him aborted.I think that should be outlawed.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[ChristineES]

Ok, why are you being so evasive? I'm asking, do you support others right to choose or not? It's a yes or no question. NO circumstances. Yes or no?

I have answered the question three times for you. I AM NOT PRO CHOICE. (Sorry for the shouting.

 

[3.14]

Tell that to the poor Austrian woman who had 6 children by her own father./quote]

wel she didn't aborted them so whats the problem (exept that incest is illigal)
Anti-rape device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Magic Man]

Ok, why are you being so evasive? I'm asking, do you support others right to choose or not? It's a yes or no question. NO circumstances. Yes or no?

It's not a yes or no question. There are circumstances. Just because someone doesn't force their morality on someone else doesn't mean they approve of the other's decision.

 

[rheff78]

I have answered the question three times for you. I AM NOT PRO CHOICE. (Sorry for the shouting.

But, you support other women's right to choose?

 

[Nanda]

Tell that to the poor Austrian woman who had 6 children by her own father./quote]

wel she didn't aborted them so whats the problem (exept that incest is illigal)
Anti-rape device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am deeply offended by everything in this post. Good lord, man.

 

[DallasApple]

It's not a yes or no question. There are circumstances. Just because someone doesn't force their morality on someone else doesn't mean they approve of the other's decision.

See thats the thing with me..I dont care if others approve or dont about what me AND the father of the child chose.Im the one that has to live with it.I didnt need to be put in litteral prison myself..I take the harsh judments of others and throw them in the same judment trash can with all the others.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[rheff78]

It's not a yes or no question. There are circumstances. Just because someone doesn't force their morality on someone else doesn't mean they approve of the other's decision.

It's not about forcing morality. It is a yes or no question. Pro-Life means you don't believe a woman has the right to choose, no matter the circumstances. We believe if a woman makes that choice, it takes away the choice of the unborn baby. Pro Choicers don't necesarilly have to be for it themselves, but still say they couldn't tell otehrs what to do. If you support someone else's choice then you are Pro CHoice. There is no middle ground here.

 

[Evelyn]

Don't just state it, explain how and why.

See my first post.

 

[Alceste]

I have mixed and deep emotions about this..I had a baby at 14 in the 8th grade.But I have also had abortions(yes ..thats plural)...I have gone through periods of self loathing,self hatred,regret and unbelievable remorse.I have to listen to people call me a murderer and a monster..And even here on this thread I should have to go to jail now to pay for it and be considered a criminal.

I can not at this point say it should be out an out illegal..Even though knowing what I know I would try and talk a woman out of it.And I would never do it again myself.But I would not have the gall to tell another woman her choice was gone..I do however strongly feel that the cut off for beign able to have one should be in the 1st trimester..Actually I'de be tempted to cut it off after about 8 weeks...

I get sick to my stomach and cringe knowing that late term abortions are performed.My first son was born at 33 weeks..7 weeks early..I just cant imagine that I could have even at that point had him aborted.I think that should be outlawed.

Blessings

Dallas

Very brave post, Dallas. I hope the dogmatic and insensitive posters in this thread will find it in themselves to be humble enough to take it all in and respond from the heart rather than just repeating their tired old bumper-sticker morals and calling it a day.

 

[ChristineES]

But, you support other women's right to choose?

I don't actually support it. I am saying I won't judge it. It never does any good to point fingers at people and tell they are going to hell just because they made a mistake. We all do things that would be considered immoral by others-- I eat meat and others may think that it is immoral. Just because they won't judge me as a animal murderer doesn't mean that they approve of my eating meat.
Absolutely nothing is black and white, there is always shades of gray.

 

[rheff78]

Ok, thank you. I wouldn't judge it either. My heart goes out to the baby and the mother. It's hard on both. Which is why people need to be more prevelant about what they are. Pro Life or Pro CHoice, no middle ground. And Dallas, my heart goes out for you too.

 

[Alceste]

It's not about forcing morality. It is a yes or no question. Pro-Life means you don't believe a woman has the right to choose, no matter the circumstances. We believe if a woman makes that choice, it takes away the choice of the unborn baby. Pro Choicers don't necesarilly have to be for it themselves, but still say they couldn't tell otehrs what to do. If you support someone else's choice then you are Pro CHoice. There is no middle ground here.

Wikipedia agrees with you. "Pro-life individuals generally believe that human life should be valued either from fertilization or implantation until natural death."

FYI, pro-lifers, this means not only are you not allowed to consider abortion a humane option in cases of rape or where the mother's life is in jeopardy, it also means birth control pills are MURDER. So get out those condoms, people, or stop with the bedroom shenanigans.

Or wait, if you are an "implantation" pro-lifer rather than a "fertilization" pro-lifer, you are not a murderer if you take the pill. Whew! Relieved?

But rheff is right - if you are not willing to let the mother die in order to save her unborn child you should not be calling yourself a pro-lifer. Remember that for the next opinion poll that comes your way and maybe we'll get some more realistic statistics.

 

[Evelyn]

Very brave post, Dallas. I hope the dogmatic and insensitive posters in this thread will find it in themselves to be humble enough to take it all in and respond from the heart rather than just repeating their tired old bumper-sticker morals and calling it a day.

What a load of....

You know, it's just unfortunate you have to paint us in such a way. As if we were oblivious to the fact that a women could be in pain and she needs people around her.

It truly is sad that it's seen as an attempt to bring down the women to the archaic days, rather then attempt to save lives.