If there's a god - why isn't it obvious?

[Storm]

I would say it is dependant on the concept of God you chose to accept or explore. If you're waiting for a bolt from heaven followed by a thunderous voice, I think you'll be disappointed. If you expect a visit from an angel that lights up the room and delivers you a book of revelation, again you'll be disappointed.
If you go around looking for God in these and only these sort of experiences, then you're setting yourself up for the conclusion that God is illusive or non-existant.

There is a saying, though I can't remember where I read it, that to have knowledge of god you must first become agnostic. You can't go around with pre-conceived notions of what to expect because that blinds you to god appearing in unexpected ways.

This.

 

[Self]

It could be said that just stopping at materialism and ridding oneself of that, is not enough to really know God.

Matter is form, when you stop being material, matter dissapears and everything dissolves into its formless state, thats God. So, yes it is enough.

 

[Self]

How does one rid oneself of materialism?

By oneself ceasing to be material. Your material as long as you identify with the body. When you stop doing that you cease to be material, or with form. That is not only ridding oneself of materialism, its ceasing to be with form, or material. When this happens, God is seen in his greatness!!!

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Matter is form, when you stop being material, matter dissapears and everything dissolves into its formless state, thats God. So, yes it is enough.

In my experience, even after all the matter dissolves, it is still arrogant to call it God. I know that is what your religion teaches, but think about it from a different perspective for a moment. Certainly it could be a road to God, but to call it God?

However, I respect your personal opinion, I was just chatting.

 

[Self]

but think about it from a different perspective for a moment.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Dont think about it, please whatever you do DONT think about it, thats the fault. Experiance it! Dont let puny little thoughts ruin the magnificant experiance!!!!!

 

[lunamoth]

So, if there's a god that cares - why isn't it obvious? I mean, what is the reason for him not communicating with us in an obvious way that everyone can readily recognise?

You mean, something like meet a respected leader on a mountain and hand him a set of laws for how to get along?

Or come to earth as God Incarnate and show us that what we should do is love each other?

What if He was killed and rose from the dead, to a new kind of life, and invited us to join Him?

If God wrote in the sky, "Turn your life around, for the Kingdom of God is near!" would you go looking for a hoax or mass delusion?

If God came to you in a vision and said, "Tell the people that all shall be well. Love one another," would you make an appointment with a psychologist?

IOW, what obvious evidence would you accept that does not, at the same time, put God in a box and under your control?

Thank you for inviting me to respond to this thread, Sidon. I don't expect you or anyone else to be satisfied by my answers, though.

 

[Sidon]

Thank you for inviting me to respond to this thread, Sidon. I don't expect you or anyone else to be satisfied by my answers, though.

Actually, they're very good. Any thoughts on why his communication [direct] is all in the past - why not now?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Any thoughts on why his communication [direct] is all in the past - why not now?

Sin. Sin created a barrier to direct communication.
That is why Jesus is go between or mediator between God and man (1Tim2:5).

For now are the 'all' Scriptures inspired by God that are beneficial for all that we need this side of Jesus 1000-year rule over earth. - 2 Tim 3:16,17

When Jesus, as king of God's kingdom, at the end of his rule hands over or delivers up the kingdom to God, then, at that time, God again will be all things to everyone including direct communication as Adam originally had.
1st Cor 15:24-28.

 

[challupa]

Sin. Sin created a barrier to direct communication.
That is why Jesus is go between or mediator between God and man (1Tim2:5).

For now are the 'all' Scriptures inspired by God that are beneficial for all that we need this side of Jesus 1000-year rule over earth. - 2 Tim 3:16,17

When Jesus, as king of God's kingdom, at the end of his rule hands over or delivers up the kingdom to God, then, at that time, God again will be all things to everyone including direct communication as Adam originally had.
1st Cor 15:24-28.

Well if no one had told you and many others that they were sinners then you wouldn't need these same people's "cure". Sin as far as the Christian god goes, is simply a manmade state created so someone can sell you the cure. And I know, before you say it's in the bible therefore it's true, I don't believe in the bible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well if no one had told you and many others that they were sinners then you wouldn't need these same people's "cure". Sin as far as the Christian god goes, is simply a manmade state created so someone can sell you the cure. And I know, before you say it's in the bible therefore it's true, I don't believe in the bible.

Man has laws and if a person breaks them he is called a criminal.
God has laws and if a person breaks them he is called a sinner.

Man's laws are supposed to reflect or be in harmony with God's laws.
God's laws being absolute and man's laws being relative to God's.

Death, according to Romans 6:7, is a 'cure' for sin.
(With the exception of Matt 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6)
Death frees or acquits a person from sins due to imperfection.
That does not mean innocent, but just like a governor can pardon a criminal means the charges no longer stick. Since Jesus is the 'cure' that is what makes possible for the dead ones to have a resurrection to either heaven or right here on earth.

As far as the living, or those still alive on earth (Matt 25:31,32) when Jesus takes action to bring Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill, those sheep-like ones will not die but continue living or remain alive right into Jesus peaceful rule over earth.

Many people who do not believe in the Bible is because the clergy class does not teach what the Bible really teaches, (Mark 7:7) but they use God or do things "In His Name" to further their own agenda.

 

[Dunemeister]

So, if there's a god that cares - why isn't it obvious? I mean, what is the reason for him not communicating with us in an obvious way that everyone can readily recognise?

Part of the Christian answer to this question involves what we call "sin." Here I don't mean individual acts of wrongdoing or failing to do what is right. Rather, I mean that we humans have a deep-seated, subconscious antipathy toward God. As a result, when we perceive God, rather than simply form the belief "God is great" we tell ourselves another story. We explain away the evidence or we take some other tack in order to avoid the implications of our experience. In other words, if it weren't for our poor attitudes, we'd all form (more or less) correct beliefs about God.

Why does he seem distant?

Same reason.

Actually, they're very good. Any thoughts on why his communication [direct] is all in the past - why not now?

God continues to communicate. We don't pick up the messages for the same reason.

 

[challupa]

Man has laws and if a person breaks them he is called a criminal.
God has laws and if a person breaks them he is called a sinner.

Man's laws are supposed to reflect or be in harmony with God's laws.
God's laws being absolute and man's laws being relative to God's.

Death, according to Romans 6:7, is a 'cure' for sin.
(With the exception of Matt 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6)
Death frees or acquits a person from sins due to imperfection.
That does not mean innocent, but just like a governor can pardon a criminal means the charges no longer stick. Since Jesus is the 'cure' that is what makes possible for the dead ones to have a resurrection to either heaven or right here on earth.

As far as the living, or those still alive on earth (Matt 25:31,32) when Jesus takes action to bring Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill, those sheep-like ones will not die but continue living or remain alive right into Jesus peaceful rule over earth.

Many people who do not believe in the Bible is because the clergy class does not teach what the Bible really teaches, (Mark 7:7) but they use God or do things "In His Name" to further their own agenda.

How do you know for sure god has laws? Remember, I don't believe the bible so that doesn't count for me.

 

[challupa]

God continues to communicate. We don't pick up the messages for the same reason.

Do you believe people when they say they have communicated with god? If I told you god has talked to me, would you believe me and what he told me?

 

[lunamoth]

Do you believe people when they say they have communicated with god? If I told you god has talked to me, would you believe me and what he told me?

Depends upon what they say God said.

 

[dust1n]

In other words, if it weren't for our poor attitudes, we'd all form (more or less) correct beliefs about God.

I was a self-inflicted Christian for two years, religiously. I had the 'rich' attitude, but it's still obvious to me that God doesn't exist.

 

[dust1n]

After reading all these posts I still don't see god, yet alone it being obvious.

 

[Dunemeister]

Do you believe people when they say they have communicated with god? If I told you god has talked to me, would you believe me and what he told me?

I might. At least I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[Dunemeister]

I was a self-inflicted Christian for two years, religiously. I had the 'rich' attitude, but it's still obvious to me that God doesn't exist.

Well, it seems that your prior attitude has reasserted itself. What does that prove?

 

[Dunemeister]

How do you know for sure god has laws? Remember, I don't believe the bible so that doesn't count for me.

Very few people who believe in a god (however defined) think that God has no opinions about what constitutes appropriate behavior for people. Just about anyone (there are exceptions) who says they know God also say that God expects people to behave in certain upright ways. And they know that through a revelation (scripture) and/or through personal communication.

 

[Autodidact]

Thanks both.

If my son asks me a question, I answer. The soundwaves created by my mouth travel to his ears and he is no doubt of a response. If a man speaks to god - who we'll say created the mouth, ear, and air, what is stopping him from talking to us in a way that make it undeniable that he's said something?

If my son has a question, my answer doesn't necessarily have a bearing on his free will - unless i ussue an instruction. So even in a private relationship - why do you have to "come to the conlcusion" that God has answered you rather than "know" he has - do you know what I mean?
Presumably if a god wnated to he could manipulate the air and make his voice physically heard...
After saying it in 100 words, I've thought of 5?

Why does he seem distant?

Because He's not there?