Katzpur said:
No. I have a memory. I have experienced cold, and am therefore able to recognize that heat is its opposite. Anything beyond that is simply a physical response to stimuli.
What if you were one of those people born and raised in a desert? What about the aboriginal people who live in the middle of australia? They don't exactly get cold there. Are they unable to recognise heat?
Let's stick with what I actually said. Where did I say that God created Satan/Lucifer as "Holy"?
You said, "I believe in a devil (Satan). I don't believe God created him evil, but that he chose to be evil." If Satan wasn't created evil, doesn't that mean he was good? And wasn't he created as an angel? And aren't Angels meant to be holy, being messengers from God and all?
Again, you're misquoting me. I never said that Satan isn't evil. I said precisely the opposite.
Well, you seemed to be saying, "Satan isn't evil, he's just not Good." I'm sorry, but I really don't fancy searching through 8 pages looking for the exact quote.
God had a purpose in allowing evil to exist alongside good. Therefore, he gets credit, not blame.
So why was Eden created as a paradise with no suffering or evil? And why were Adam and Eve PUNISHED for eating from the tree if that's what God had planned all along?
I bet he's having himself a hell of a good time
right now. But it's not over yet.
Which leads to the question, why isn't it over yet. What's God waiting for?
He will when He's ready. He doesn't operate according to your timetable.
Again with the "We can't understand God's plan" which is pulled out whenever there's a question about God which can't be answered.
Does this have anything to do with the topic?
yes, dealing with punishments for doing things wrong. America executes some criminals. God executed most stuff in the Flood. This was directed at the claim that death is not a good punishment, because the punishment requires awareness. I was merely pointing out how that logic is flawed because death is being used as a punishment today, and God's done it himself, so we can't suddenly change the rules when it comes to making excuses for God not punishing Satan by saying, "God doesn't kill Satan because punishments require awareness of the punishment."
Since when did I question Him? If anybody's questioning Him, it's you. Given the fact that you don't even believe in Him, there is about as much point in you questioning Him as there is in me questioning the tooth fairy. Why do you bother?
Oh, sorry, i thought you were claiming that Death wasn't a good punishment, even though God has found it fit to use death as a punishment before. Didn't you say,
"How is [death] punishment? Doesn't there need to be awareness in order for punishment to be effective?" Apparently God doesn't think so. he has used death as a punishment before!!!!! And if it's good enough for God, it should be good enough for you!
Real Sorcerer said:
Well first, I don't believe that the future is something that can be known. It doesn't exist. It hasn't happened yet. "Future" is just a word to describe what happens after right now. "All-Knowing" only extends to things that have happened and are happening. Therefore, before God created anything, did He know about violence, death, or destruction? Ergo, God created Satan with the belief that he would be normal. Also, if I know what someone is going to do, how does it stop them from having free-will? Just becuase I can know or predict their behavior doesn't mean they have no free-choice.
Unfortunately I can't confine my debate to your interpretation. There are lots of people who believe that God does know the future. Anyway, there's mention in the Bible of the book of names that contains the list of people who will go to heaven and the list of those who will go to Hell. Unless the names are chosen randomly, then doesn't that indicate at least some foreknowledge of the future? And what about those biblical prophecies?
And agian, just becuase I know that you are going to cross the street does not mean that you didn't choose to cross the street. I am not deciding your action for you, I simply know what you are going to do.
So it's possible for me to NOT cross the street, depsite your knowledge that I will cross it?
And regarding the destruction of the world, I understand that you feel comfortable dismissing the old testament as myth, but as I said before, I can't confine my debate yto your interpretation. besides, my references to Noah's Flood were merely to show that according to the bible, God is perfectly willing to use widespread death as a punishment, which he has failed to use against Satan.
Peace4all said:
Ok so god has been there for all eternity and hes created many creations. I guess god felt that he wanted to be worshiped by creatures with free will so he created ginn (the arabic word translates into spirits) so these spirits have the choice of wheather to worship god or not. When these spirits started to worship god the Angels admired them greatly and soon their intensions deviated and they started to worship god to be admired by his other creations rather than because of their devotion to god. And god knew this. so when god decided to create humans and asks the spirits to bow down to Adam they were outraged. To them it was an insult to having to bow down to such an inferior creature. Those spirits that did not bow to Adam soon were called satans. When god damned them from ever gaining salvation they were even more outraged and they took all their fury out at adam. So the Devil hated adam at the very start because adam was why the devil was damned so he proceeded to trick adam to eat from the forbidden tree and get kicked out of heaven and sent to earth.
So to make the long story shot god created man as a test to satan and satan as a test for man.
Why does God need to perform a test? Doesn't he know what the outcome will be? And at what point did you go from many devils to one devil? Also, why would God require beings to worship him? Was he lonely?
