If there is no God who started the universe

[Spirit of Light]

So the whole thread is a lie. You don't "trust" science so you don't actually care about the answers to the scientific questions you raised. Your answer will always be "God" regardless of what anyone else says. So what was even the point?

To me, the answer will always be God, yes.
Others see it differently, my tread is not about bashing non believers but to ask if they can prove God does not exist. Can you?

 

[ratiocinator]

Others see it differently, my tread is not about bashing non believers but to ask if they can prove God does not exist. Can you?

Firstly, so why didn't you ask that question instead of the science stuff? Secondly, it's a silly question anyway, can you prove the invisible dragon in my garage doesn't exist?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Firstly, so why didn't you ask that question instead of the science stuff? Secondly, it's a silly question anyway, can you prove the invisible dragon in my garage doesn't exist?

This is exactly why i asked, you guys always come back with a silly answer, but when you ask believers to give proof of God, then its 100%serioues from your side thats strange

 

[Jesster]

To me, the answer will always be God, yes.
Others see it differently, my tread is not about bashing non believers but to ask if they can prove God does not exist. Can you?

The existence of a god can't be tested for. If something can't be tested for, it can't be disproven either. Those go hand-in-hand.

So by default, I don't accept a belief in something that's not falsifiable like that. Because then everything you could imagine stands on equal ground. I see no reason to complicate my life like that.

So now that it can't be disproven, now what?

 

[FearGod]

I suspect there was no beginning to the universe. Our expansion is just a minuscule part of something much vaster.

IMO, there is more to the universe than we will ever know. The universe has always existed, will always exist. Always changing.

Why, again the simplest explanation. Adding God overburdens the complexity.

God created the universe... Who created God, where did God come from? God is an imaginary stop sign placed at an arbitrary point in time.

God has no start and is always existing, not understood but that is how
God described his own self and nothing can be compared to him.

There's complexity in our bodies and that needs intelligence as to work,
we can't really deny this amazing creation by believing it just happened
to be so with no plan and with no design, scientists are working for many
months to create a vaccine for covid-19 and they are doing their best with
many trials and attempts while our bodies can make the antibodies within
several days and the body can gain immunity for some period of time.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The existence of a god can't be tested for. If something can't be tested for, it can't be disproven either. Those go hand-in-hand.

So by default, I don't accept a belief in something that's not falsifiable like that. Because then everything you could imagine stands on equal ground. I see no reason to complicate my life like that.

So now that it can't be disproven, now what?

I got my answer, non believers cant prove God does not exist
Of course i pushing this very far, and probably make people irritated at me, i do not mean any harm.
But i seen so many post in RF about how bad evil God must be, or its stupid to believe in a God that science can not prove. And when someone ask us to prove God, non of the answer given is accepted as proof, because non believers do not believe in something spiritual

 

[Jesster]

I got my answer, non believers cant prove God does not exist
Of course i pushing this very far, and probably make people irritated at me, i do not mean any harm.
But i seen so many post in RF about how bad evil God must be, or its stupid to believe in a God that science can not prove. And when someone ask us to prove God, non of the answer given is accepted as proof, because non believers do not believe in something spiritual

Well you'll definitely get different answers from every nonbeliever. To me, the burden of providing evidence of a claim is on the person making the claim. Since a god isn't present in our apparent lives, it's quite a big claim to say that a god exists. It's still a claim that one does not exist, but it's at least much more in-line with common perception. As for me? I've seen no presence of any god, so I live my life as if there wasn't one. I'm not making any claims.

 

[Nakosis]

God has no start and is always existing, not understood but that is how
God described his own self and nothing can be compared to him.

There's complexity in our bodies and that needs intelligence as to work,
we can't really deny this amazing creation by believing it just happened
to be so with no plan and with no design, scientists are working for many
months to create a vaccine for covid-19 and they are doing their best with
many trials and attempts while our bodies can make the antibodies within
several days and the body can gain immunity for some period of time.

So you are willing to believe in a God with all of God's complexities has existed forever but not of a complex, ever-changing universe that has always existed.

So how do you think this immunity works? Does the body connect to some cosmic intelligence which instructs it how to start creating antibodies?

 

[FearGod]

So you are willing to believe in a God with all of God's complexities has existed forever but not of a complex, ever-changing universe that has always existed.

I'm not talking about how complexities achieved but I can see intelligence involved.

So how do you think this immunity works? Does the body connect to some cosmic intelligence which instructs it how to start creating antibodies?

It was designed to work in such a manner, the same way we plan to create a vaccine, no magic.

 

[Polymath257]

Because science can not answer that God do not exist

Science relies on evidence. If there is no evidence either way, then science is silent on the issue.

On the other hand, there *is* evidence for evolution and the Big Bang. So science is NOT silent on those.

 

[FearGod]

Science relies on evidence. If there is no evidence either way, then science is silent on the issue.

On the other hand, there *is* evidence for evolution and the Big Bang. So science is NOT silent on those.

And God says I created the universe and life, and since you can't detect God then it was
the stone.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm not talking about how complexities achieved but I can see intelligence involved.

Intelligence is just another complexity. You and I may not understand how it came about but that doesn't mean a God was necessary. Of course you can choose to believe that a God is necessary for intelligent life to exist but I see nothing compelling someone to make that choice.

It was designed to work in such a manner, the same way we plan to create a vaccine, no magic.

However many people died so it would seem the "intelligence" behind the design is flawed.

 

[FearGod]

Intelligence is just another complexity. You and I may not understand how it came about but that doesn't mean a God was necessary. Of course you can choose to believe that a God is necessary for intelligent life to exist but I see nothing compelling someone to make that choice.

If you believe God wasn't necessary then how can we explain such complexity in life
that leaded to intelligent life?

However many people died so it would seem the "intelligence" behind the design is flawed.

And all people should die if our bodies weren't designed to defend itself whereas
you think that the death of few people is an evidence that it's the work of chance,
no it can never be so, it's designed to work in such a manner as to defend us from
attacks regardless that some failed and died.

 

[Polymath257]

And God says I created the universe and life, and since you can't detect God then it was
the stone.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.

Since there is no way to detect God, science is silent on the issue and limits itself to questions for which there is evidence.

 

[FearGod]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.

Since there is no way to detect God, science is silent on the issue and limits itself to questions for which there is evidence.

The evidence is our minds, if you see a door then you believe a carpenter was behind it
regardless that you see him or not, just your mind realizes how things worked.

 

[Polymath257]

The evidence is our minds, if you see a door then you believe a carpenter was behind it
regardless that you see him or not, just your mind realizes how things worked.

But if I see a tree, I don't think that it was planted by someone. if I see a star, I don't think it was formed by someone. If I see a lake, I don't think there was an intelligence behind its formation.

The reason I think there was a carpenter when I see a a door is that I *know* carpenters make doors and that doors don't form naturally. I *do* know that trees come from seeds naturally and those seeds fall naturally and sprout naturally. I *do* know that stars form naturally from the action of gravity on large clouds of gas. And I *do* know that lakes form naturally from rain water. None of these requires an intelligent agent to happen.

So, do we actually know that the universe needs an intelligence behind it to form? Not that I can see.

 

[Nakosis]

If you believe God wasn't necessary then how can we explain such complexity in life
that leaded to intelligent life?

An eternal universe where life or the potential for life has always existed.

And all people should die if our bodies weren't designed to defend itself whereas
you think that the death of few people is an evidence that it's the work of chance,
no it can never be so, it's designed to work in such a manner as to defend us from
attacks regardless that some failed and died.

So you accept the design was flawed? The design was imperfect since deaths happened.

 

[HonestJoe]

To me, the answer will always be God, yes.
Others see it differently, my tread is not about bashing non believers but to ask if they can prove God does not exist. Can you?

Your thread is about the Big Bang, not disproving God. The Big Bang theory being valid doesn't automatically exclude any gods and it being false doesn't prove any gods. If you want to talk about proving a god, you need to actually talk about that god.

I couldn't and have no intention of trying to prove God doesn't exist, though even if I could, you wouldn't accept any kind of proof because to you, "the answer will always be God. yes". So your thread is still a lie.

 

[FearGod]

But if I see a tree, I don't think that it was planted by someone. if I see a star, I don't think it was formed by someone. If I see a lake, I don't think there was an intelligence behind its formation.

The reason I think there was a carpenter when I see a a door is that I *know* carpenters make doors and that doors don't form naturally. I *do* know that trees come from seeds naturally and those seeds fall naturally and sprout naturally. I *do* know that stars form naturally from the action of gravity on large clouds of gas. And I *do* know that lakes form naturally from rain water. None of these requires an intelligent agent to happen.

So, do we actually know that the universe needs an intelligence behind it to form? Not that I can see.

And when you see a monkey you'll know that it came from another monkey and when you
see a tiger you'll know it came from another tiger and when you see a human then you
will believe that it was evolved from gorilla like creatures, but what I see that humans will
produce humans and always will produce humans, I didn't see how gorilla like creatures
have evolved to produce humans, God said that earth was kind of smoke before forming
as a planet, if you believe that planets were really looked smoke then why you don't
believe that God is telling you facts that you already know to be real.

I believe atheists just want to be atheists and that has nothing to do with evidences.

 

[FearGod]

An eternal universe where life or the potential for life has always existed.



So you accept the design was flawed? The design was imperfect since deaths happened.

Believe me, you're fooling your own self, just create a human and be more superior
than the stone which you believe it was the reason that you're here on earth, I believe
with your good mind you can make a better design for a better human than the stupid
nature, you have all material and you have an advantage, you have a mind, go a head
and create a good designed human being.