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Featured If there is no God who started the universe

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Conscious thoughts, Oct 19, 2020.

  1. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Living life in silence, observing.

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    All the time i hear "there is no God, evolution is the cause of our existence "

    My thought: i believe many religious people are thinking, if there is no God, how did it all start?

    How can something suddenly go Bang ( big bang) but nothing triggerd the bang to happen?
    So the question is.

    No God, how did it go bang the first time from a big empty nothing?
    Was there something there that triggerd it?

    If there as been a series of big bangs over billions of years,what cased the first big bang?
     
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  2. chinu

    chinu Passenger

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    Evolution is NOT the cause of creation. It is God that created universe, NOT evolution.

    We cannot you use the word "created" and "evolution" together ?

    If evolution is still creating -- then in order to claim this point -- we have to wait until evolution finish creating everything.
    If evolution created. then it is NOT evolution because evolution means which is constantly evolving/changing all things every sec (Even evolving while when we making all these posts)

    Hence, evolution created claim stands inappropriate.
     
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  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    I think the universe is endless. A continuum to be more precise so there is no real first cause because of that.
     
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  4. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Nobody knows how come we are here. It is unknown.
     
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  5. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I suspect there was no beginning to the universe. Our expansion is just a minuscule part of something much vaster.

    IMO, there is more to the universe than we will ever know. The universe has always existed, will always exist. Always changing.

    Why, again the simplest explanation. Adding God overburdens the complexity.

    God created the universe... Who created God, where did God come from? God is an imaginary stop sign placed at an arbitrary point in time.
     
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  6. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Check out Agrippa's Trilemma. Your answer is not an explanation. It is what you find reasonable in your thinking.
     
  7. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    Who started the universe? Kind of presupposes.
     
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  8. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    As it has been explained innumerous times before, evolution, big bang, etc. aren't incompatable with the concept of god just because they conflict with literal interpretations of various creation stories.
    Besides "Who created god?" is just as fair of a question as "who created the universe?". Perhaps the answer is the same.
     
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  9. Left Coast

    Left Coast Happy Holidays!
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    Short answer: we don't know.

    However, "I don't know" is not a rational justification for "God did it."
     
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  10. KAT-KAT

    KAT-KAT Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an atheist, so all I can say is:

    1. Without God, creation would have to be explained by natural processes. However it becomes a never ending loop as we keep asking, "But what created Z which caused Y to happen which caused X to happen which..."

    2. I have heard that space is ever expanding. So creation is an ever continuing thing and a work in progress even today.
     
    #10 KAT-KAT, Oct 19, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  11. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I don't think that.

    The first thing I think is a lugubrious sigh and "can folks please, please, please stop conflating biological evolution and cosmology?" and then "of course folks won't stop conflating these things... I'm just going to have to keep correcting all the time" followed by another lugubrious and perhaps slightly aggravated sigh.

    The second thing I think is "My religion doesn't presuppose a creator god that "started" it all so I'm not one of the religious people who thinks that. Cosmology is only relevant insofar as it reinforces a worldview that is important to present meaning; it is otherwise irrelevant."

    As such, the only thing vaguely approaching a cosmology in my religion are stories that reinforce other stories told in other ways. I tell the story of the universe never having a beginning to emphasize that my religion has a cyclical view of time, not a linear one. It's not about it being literally true - I really don't care what is literally true of cosmology as it was far too long ago to have any relevance to me in the now - but the lessons that are taught from the story. This is something many sadly miss when approaching mythology. The point of the story isn't to convey some sort of factual, literal truth but to inform one's worldview and approach to thinking about things. In my case, cyclical rather than linear.
     
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  12. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why you bring evolution into a question about cosmology. Evolution is a theory about how living species on the Earth develop from previous ones. So let's leave that aside.

    The scientific answer to the question of the origin of the universe is that nobody knows. The Big Bang is a model that proposes the universe inflated from something small and concentrated, based on the observations we have made about cosmic expansion and the background radiation. There is a conjecture that this small, concentrated initial universe may have come from a singularity, but there is no real evidence for this - it's just an extrapolation.

    Science stops at the point at which there is no observational evidence to determine the choice of model. Science is not embarrassed to say there are things we don't know.

    So the field is quite open for people who believe in God to attribute creation of the cosmos to Him, if they like.

    On the other hand, the physicalists will be content to say it is just something we don't - and maybe cannot - know, and leave it at that.
     
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  13. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Which is rather silly, I agree. Evolution is only the cause of species diversity, not of existence.

    Even if there is a God, how did God start?

    This is a (common) misunderstanding of what the Big Bang theory says.

    In reality, it does NOT say that there was something that exploded. In the simplest version of the BB cosmology, there is simply no 'time' before the Big Bang. No there was no 'something' that existed prior that 'banged'. And that means there was no 'trigger' because nothing 'exploded'.

    Well, in that case, there may well have been an infinite sequence of such before the one leading to what we see. In other words, there may not have *been* a first.

    Think of it like this. You probably believe God is eternal (if not, then ignore what I am about to say). That is why you don't think that God had a beginning.

    All I am saying is that it is possible this is simply true for the universe/multiverse. If the multiverse is eternal, there was no 'beginning' and the whole question goes away.

    The question I would ask is why you think the universe needed a beginning but God does not.
     
    #13 Polymath257, Oct 19, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  14. MNoBody

    MNoBody Well-Known Member

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    The Universe is depicted as being infinite, without beginning or end, no center, no boundaries, beyond mortal imagination in its totality;
    but eternal, meaning evolving, revolving through cycles that spin round the whole there and back again,
    repetitively, in and out, up and down, round and round, wheels within wheels ever spinning...... .
    which is an epic and mind-blowing depiction....
    perhaps all that spinning with the sufi's helped to see it that way, so to speak.
     
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  15. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Wouldn't someone concerned with the truth simply ask "how did it all start?" Why do you need the "if there is no God..." on the beginning?

    I mean, starting off with the assumption that your preferred conclusion is some sort of default isn't rational.
     
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  16. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    No one knows, isn't that amazing :D

    And im not kidding here, as annoying as it might be to not know this, how incredible is it to be able to look into the sky and wonder about it?

    The biggest difference, between simply saying that we don't know and that of throwing God under the bus,in my opinion, is honesty.

    Even if you say that God did it, then the question is still why?

    Where did God come from? Obviously people will answer this in a dishonest way, and simply say that God is eternal... because...?? Well that is what some people said he were so why not.

    Why did God create the universe the way he did, if he is all powerful, why not just create it, rather than make it all start in one point and expand, that make no bloody sense? I mean its not like God need an evolving Universe, only humans does. So why God would create something like that and wait 14.7 billion years seems very strange.

    Also if God doesn't need any physical materials, why on Earth would he create a materialistic Universe, he could have created the Universe exactly as he wanted it to be?

    But if you think that it is more satisfying to be told that "God is eternal and works in mysterious ways" compared to "We don't know, but we are working on finding it out, stay tuned". Then the religious explanation is definitely the best one :)
     
    #16 Nimos, Oct 19, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  17. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Actually, whilst that might be what you hear, I doubt anyone has said that. Evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang, assuming they're the concepts you're referring to here.

    No idea. I don't think anyone knows for certain. Including people who suppose 'God' and simply avoid the question of how God came into existence.

    People can believe whatever they like. When they're telling you that their belief means you can't do x,y,z because their God doesn't want you to, we aren't really talking about apples to apples.

    However, if their God-belief doesn't result in this, and is just how they view things...more power to them.
     
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  18. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Are you claiming that Agrippa's Trilemma is a valid argument?

    Based on what?
     
  19. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    You need to think bigger than that.
    The Universe is tiny compared with all.

    And God is far too gigantic to be aware of you or me, so won't even hear your question. :)
     
  20. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    First question: you ask "if there is no God, who started the universe?" My question is, why do you assume a "who" rather than "what?"

    Second question: why are you so sure that the universe "started," rather than simply is and always was? In one form or another, or course.
     
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