If God existed would there be proof?

[ppp]

Biodiversity loss, exposure to pollutants, climate change, and fuel consumption are all issues that threaten human and climate health alike, and are, as such, foci of the field.

Sure.

A number of researchers think that it is actually humanity's destruction of biodiversity and the invasion of wild landscapes that creates the conditions for malarial, and new diseases such as COVID-19.

All this tells me is that an unidentified number of unidentified researchers think that our destruction of biodiversity has a causal connection to COVID19. Great. Three questions.

• What is that connection?
• What is the evidence for that connection?
• Has this been published and peer reviewed in a mainstream journal of the relevant field?

Can you please say explicitly what you are in disagreement about?

There are a lot of diseases both more and less virulent than covid that have arisen through purely natural means. If someone is going to posit an unusual mechanism for producing a virus then, then someone needs to describe the mechanism and provide proper research for it.

BTW, malaria is a parasite. COVID is a virus.

 

[CG Didymus]

What difference does it make to anything that matters if there is a supreme being or not, I mean, who cares?

Even for Baha'is, who think everything changed in 1844, before that what did the Abrahamic God have to do with anything? We had people all over the world 1000, maybe 1500 years ago, believing all sorts of weird things. The "real" God orchestrated all of that? That's why I think people in each culture invented their Gods and religion. Then each borrowed concepts from others, or some were conquered by others and made to worship the kings and Gods of the other people. And Baha'is don't even support the beliefs of the major religion in those days the Christians, with their beliefs in demons and Satan and Jesus being God.

 

[CG Didymus]

That's why I said empirical evidence; what you guys call evidence is a bit of a stretch most of the times; the fact that we exist is evidence to some of you guys.

Just look around you. How could all of this have got here without a kind, loving God? Stars exploding and Black holes sucking. On Earth volcanoes erupting. Tsunamis drowning. Earthquakes trembling. In the animal world, one thing eats another. When mating season comes, the males fight each other for domination. Yes, it all so beautiful. Just look around and see the handiwork of God.

Of course, some religions have an explanation... Like Satan screwed it all up. And Adam disobeyed causing God to have to curse the Earth. But Baha'is don't believe those stories. And even if Islam does, the Baha'i Faith trumps their beliefs, because they are the new and fresh information from God.

 

[CG Didymus]

While officials in many countries, including the US, are now expected to raise interest rates to try to rein in price increases, Mr Malpass warned higher borrowing costs could hurt economic activity - especially in weaker economies.

"The problem with rate hikes is it hurts people that need floating rate money... and that's usually new businesses, women-owned businesses, developing country businesses," Mr Malpass said.

Separately, the World Economic Forum (WEF) warned that divergent economic recoveries were making it harder to collaborate on global challenges such as climate change.

"Widening disparities within and between countries will not only make it more difficult to control Covid-19 and its variants, but will also risk stalling, if not reversing, joint action against shared threats that the world cannot afford to overlook," the WEF said in its annual global risks report on Tuesday.
World Bank warns global economy faces grim outlook

As I say, climate-change cannot be solved without a change to the global financial system..

Danny Sriskandarajah, Oxfam GB's chief executive, said the charity timed the report each year to coincide with Davos to attract the attention of economic, business and political elites.

"This year, what's happening is off the scale," he said. "There's been a new billionaire created almost every day during this pandemic, meanwhile 99% of the world's population are worse off because of lockdowns, lower international trade, less international tourism, and as a result of that, 160 million more people have been pushed into poverty."

"Something is deeply flawed with our economic system," he added.
Wealth of world's 10 richest men doubled in pandemic, Oxfam says

And Baha'is agree. What is the Islamic solution? And isn't there a problem with so many Muslims made rich by oil?

 

[Kfox]

Just look around you. How could all of this have got here without a kind, loving God? Stars exploding and Black holes sucking. On Earth volcanoes erupting. Tsunamis drowning. Earthquakes trembling. In the animal world, one thing eats another. When mating season comes, the males fight each other for domination. Yes, it all so beautiful. Just look around and see the handiwork of God.

Of course, some religions have an explanation... Like Satan screwed it all up. And Adam disobeyed causing God to have to curse the Earth. But Baha'is don't believe those stories. And even if Islam does, the Baha'i Faith trumps their beliefs, because they are the new and fresh information from God.

I don't know what stories Bahai believes, but I've got a feeling whatever stories they do believe, they would sound just as ridicules to me.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..isn't there a problem with so many Muslims made rich by oil?

Yes, corruption is endemic to human beings.
It is not that Muslims, or anybody else for that matter, are somehow immune from committing sin.

However, there is nothing wrong with becoming wealthy from oil, but it is the means by which we become rich that is in question.
eg. creating monopolies by creating bodies such as OPEC

 

[muhammad_isa]

All this tells me is that an unidentified number of unidentified researchers think that our destruction of biodiversity has a causal connection to COVID19. Great. Three questions.

• What is that connection?
• What is the evidence for that connection?
• Has this been published and peer reviewed in a mainstream journal of the relevant field?

I assume that you ask these questions because you are dubious of the theory.

David Attenborough's filmography as writer, presenter and narrator spans eight decades; it includes Zoo Quest, Natural World, Wildlife on One, the Planet Earth franchise, The Blue Planet and its sequel. He is the only person to have won BAFTAs in all of the categories black and white, colour, high-definition, 3D and 4K resolutions.
...
Attenborough was initially sceptical about the human influence on climate change, and stated that a 2004 lecture finally convinced him humans were responsible. He remained silent on the issue until 2006. Attenborough attended and spoke at COP26 as the "People's Advocate" for the event, and urged world leaders to act to reduce emissions.
...
In 2021, Attenborough told the leaders of the 47th G7 summit that "tackling climate change was now as much a political challenge as it was a scientific or technological one" and urged more action. Attenborough also stated that "(we) are on the verge of destabilising the entire planet."
David Attenborough - Wikipedia

There are a lot of diseases both more and less virulent than covid that have arisen through purely natural means. If someone is going to posit an unusual mechanism for producing a virus then, then someone needs to describe the mechanism and provide proper research for it.

Sure.
You can ask for "proof".
That's what David Attenborough did until he realised his mistake.
It seems that many people have left it rather late.
The catstrophes of climate-change are already upon us.

..and I'll think you'll find that HIV & covid are symptoms of ecological imbalance, but if you prefer to believe that disease that wipes out vast swathes of life are "natural", then I suppose you will just be one more person who makes it their business to be one of the "evolutionary survivors."

 

[ppp]

I assume that you ask these questions because you are dubious of the theory.

David Attenborough's filmography as writer, presenter and narrator spans eight decades; it includes Zoo Quest, Natural World, Wildlife on One, the Planet Earth franchise, The Blue Planet and its sequel. He is the only person to have won BAFTAs in all of the categories black and white, colour, high-definition, 3D and 4K resolutions.
...
Attenborough was initially sceptical about the human influence on climate change, and stated that a 2004 lecture finally convinced him humans were responsible. He remained silent on the issue until 2006. Attenborough attended and spoke at COP26 as the "People's Advocate" for the event, and urged world leaders to act to reduce emissions.
...
In 2021, Attenborough told the leaders of the 47th G7 summit that "tackling climate change was now as much a political challenge as it was a scientific or technological one" and urged more action. Attenborough also stated that "(we) are on the verge of destabilising the entire planet."
David Attenborough - Wikipedia

Ok. Stop.
Your posts are all over the place. I don't see a central thesis. I am not proceeding until you can present a short and concise statement of the point you are trying to make. If you are not interested in doing that, then that's fine. But I am not willing to jump all over the place.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Ok. Stop.
Your posts are all over the place. I don't see a central thesis..

"(we) are on the verge of destabilising the entire planet."

It seems pretty clear to me.
Maybe you are not familiar with David Attenborough?

 

[ppp]

"(we) are on the verge of destabilising the entire planet."

Oh, that I agree with. But if you recall, this was your first response to me.

A lot of people now seem to agree that climate-change is a serious issue.
However, they are still not ready to admit what is the underlying cause, and the situation gets worse year on year, despite warning signs such as covid.

We are on the verge of destabilizing the planet. In fact I would say that we have pushed the planet past that point, but COVID has nothing to do with that. Viruses sweeping through large populations a couple times a century is standard operating procedure for nature.

It seems pretty clear to me.
Maybe you are not familiar with David Attenborough?

I am. I watched his specials on PBS through the 70s and into the 80s.

The disconnect that we are having is that you think that simply saying his name is an answer to questions I asked earlier, and that is incorrect. While it is fine to look to prominent scientists (which Attenborough is not) for their findings on an issue, what I need is to understand their chain of evidence and reasoning that got them to that point.

• What is that connection?

• What is the evidence for that connection?

• Has this been published and peer reviewed in a mainstream journal of the relevant field?

 

[muhammad_isa]

While it is fine to look to prominent scientists (which Attenborough is not) for their findings on an issue, what I need is to understand their chain of evidence and reasoning that got them to that point.

OK.
Are you saying that you cannot comprehend why a person would hypothesise such a theory?
i.e. that there is a correlation between environment and infection

I could continue to provide refs. etc, but as in demonstrating why people believe in G-d, I'm wondering if it's really worth it .. if a person wants to claim that infection is "natural" and has no particular cause, it seems futile, as it seems pretty obvious to me.

The question is, "is there a correlation between how people live and disease?".
There aren't many people who would say "no".
If one keeps a drove of pigs in a filthy environment, do you think that it is not asking for trouble?
..just saying..

 

[ppp]

Are you saying that you cannot comprehend why a person would hypothesise such a theory?

No. What I am saying are the words I wrote. There is no subtext. But it is clear that you do not know what I am talking about, so let's drop it.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No. What I am saying are the words I wrote. There is no subtext. But it is clear that you do not know what I am talking about, so let's drop it.

Right you are, but while the topic about armageddon is not the only "proof" of the existence of G-d, you should understand that believers find it very illuminating.

 

[ppp]

Right you are, but while the topic about armageddon is not the only "proof" of the existence of G-d, you should understand that believers find it very illuminating.

I do understand that they think that it is illuminating.

 

[setarcos]

Do you know what relative morality is?

 

[ppp]

...

Did you forget to add your own text?

 

[Sheldon]

Both climate-change and covid are phenomena with similar causes.

Evidence please?

They are both global,

So What? Given the massive human population, and the number of humans who continually travel across the globe constantly, a pandemic was inevitable. It is nothing new after all.

and are signs that there is something fundamentally wrong.

Nonsense, evidence please? Or is this to be another of your facile claims that you simply run away from when asked to evidence them? Like your claim that religion, and not science, will solve climate change, or your claim that eradicating usury will cure climate change, with no attempt to explain how destroying the global economy, without any viable alternative to replace it, is a path to anything but global genocide.

 

[Sheldon]

I never said anything about destroying anything..

You said the solution to climate change was to prohibit usury.

When that motive for credit is gone, capitalism would be destroyed, that is axiomatic. So what is your alternative beyond woolly wishful theistic idealism, that has failed to establish itslef as a better system despite millennia of chances to do so?

 

[Sheldon]

I never said anything about destroying anything..
How would you expect me to do that, in any case?

I don't, I found your claim preposterous, in fact I am pretty sure I used precisely that word.

 

[Sheldon]

It is only by realising that it is NOT clever and that they are the "destroyers", that we might make some progress with climate-change.

Great, when do we get to where you explain the alternative to capitalism? I am all agog with anticipation...

I know you don't care for the truth. You have made that quite plain.

For maximum rhetorical effect, shouldn't you tack the word logic onto that illogical use of ad hominem, and poisoning of the well fallacies?