cambridge79
Active Member
and if he can lie, why should we trust him?
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if God can do anything, can he lie?
- Thread starter cambridge79
- Start date
cambridge79
Active Member
i would say that yes he can lie.
For example in the very bible he lets Abraham think he wants him to sacrifice his child, until he actually stops him before he kills him. Therefore even in the text ( at least talking about the god of the bible ) he's shown as being able to lie.
Than what if he is just bored? Maybe he just liked the idea to come on earth with different disguises, once dressed as muhammad, once dressed as jesus and so on, and se the mess we would come up with after that. He is allknowing, he surely was able to predict all the mess.
and for sure nothing obliges him to love us.
For example in the very bible he lets Abraham think he wants him to sacrifice his child, until he actually stops him before he kills him. Therefore even in the text ( at least talking about the god of the bible ) he's shown as being able to lie.
Than what if he is just bored? Maybe he just liked the idea to come on earth with different disguises, once dressed as muhammad, once dressed as jesus and so on, and se the mess we would come up with after that. He is allknowing, he surely was able to predict all the mess.
and for sure nothing obliges him to love us.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
Of course he gets bored. It's why he created humanity. That, and he craved a little adoration and worship.
Er...He doesn't speak directly so he can't be said to lie....
Town Heretic
Temporarily out of order
God can't do all sorts of things if we understand Him as the perfection of all good, as its root. In fact, the most limited being in existence, morally speaking, would be God.
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
I think the Creator of the universe could pretty much do whatever It wanted. It's human religions that try and put limitations, labels or emotions on such a being.
Nor is it about trust, it is about honoring the fact that God chose to create life, or at least gave nature the capacity to allow life to evolve.
Nor is it about trust, it is about honoring the fact that God chose to create life, or at least gave nature the capacity to allow life to evolve.
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you.
God does not speak lie because God does not have weakness.
According to Ahmadiyya Promised Messiah Mahdi (a.s.), Allah in Quran is:
=The rightful Deity with no associates.
=The One Who has all noble attributes.
=The One Who has no weakness.
=The One Who is source of all blessing.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
God lied to Abraham about wanting Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac.
God also made others lie, in effect lying through them.
1 Kings 22:23
"Micaiah said, “Ahab, this has now happened. The Lord has caused your prophets to lie to you. The Lord has decided that great trouble should come to you.”
"Micaiah said, “Ahab, this has now happened. The Lord has caused your prophets to lie to you. The Lord has decided that great trouble should come to you.”
cambridge79
Active Member
how do you know? if he directly tells you remember that it could be a lie.
and if you come up to that conclusion you may be wrong, cause we definitely know humans can be wrong. humans are wrong all the times on all sort of things.
that wouldn't be a weakness at all. He wouldn't lie cause he is weak, he would lie cause he can!
Being forced not to lie actually looks much more a weakness than being able to chose when to lie and when to tell the thruth.
Please also notice that to find the evidence that he can't lie in the scriptures like you do is pointless. Because if he can lie than the scripture may be a lie aswell.
Apparently is something you decide that he can't do
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EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
The Abrahamic god started off with the biggest of all Lies . . .
“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (Genesis 2: 17)
God’s lie is further exposed when the Serpent reveals to Eve the truth;
“The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3: 4)
“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (Genesis 2: 17)
God’s lie is further exposed when the Serpent reveals to Eve the truth;
“The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3: 4)
cambridge79
Active Member
very appropriate remark!
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Note: I have added your headline in your quote.
Peace be on you.
Please note:
You asked "If God can do anything". It means you are not sure.
Then you ask a question [can he lie] while you was not sure on base.
Then you further construct another question [why should we trust him] !!
It is strange position.
If you line of doubt is further streched, one may ask also, Can God kill himself and so on......
The purity is a vital concept in Godhead. God does not lie because God is Holy concept.
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DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you.
1=Can you both please not think, maybe verses you quoted had some meanings or translations were not right or they were not right instead of calling God as lier?
2=Quran clearly said:
[37:160] Holy is Allah and free from what they attribute to Him.
[59:25] He is Allah, the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifies Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
Unification
Well-Known Member
With no bias, die can refer to many things without it being the literal physical death.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Was God serious with Abraham or he was lying for a purpose ?
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I consider God to be lying re: Adam and Eve as well, though it is really more of a threat than a lie. It's worded in a way that the serpent can call God out on it regardless.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
One thing I doubt it would mean is 'live' . . .
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
No . . . sorry
Free in what way and who is "they" ?
What does his "beautiful names" have to do with any of this?
The Quran does not name this tree and it is always referred to as "the tree". Muslims believe that when God created Adam and Eve, He told them that they could enjoy everything in the Garden but this tree, and so, Satan appeared to them and told them that the only reason God forbade them to eat from that tree is that they would become Angels or become immortals.
The Quran takes an older story / myth and revises it . . . that's all
cambridge79
Active Member
i've already told, and i think is not a concept so hard to understand, that if you assume that god can lie, quoting the scriptures to prove he can not is pointless because in the scripture would be basically him telling "i can't lie".
if i told you that "i can't lie" and i'm in fact a liar, than when i told you "i can't lie" i was in fact lying.
Also, looking at the bits of kuran you quoted, if Holy Allah is "free from what they attribute to him", i assume he is also free from what YOU attribute to him ( and you attribute to him that he can not lie. ).
Now if he is free he can do what he wants, including lie if he thinks is the right thing to do.
Also if he is "the wise" he is probably wise enough to know when is better to tell the thruth and when is better to lie.
It actually look like that scripture you quoted me is proving my point more than yours.