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Ideas concerning the cross. || JESUS ADHERENTS ONLY.


Well-Known Member
djhwoodwerks since there will never be an explanation that will curb this obsession you have with JW's, I will not derail this thread any further.

In other words, you can't refute my last posts, correct? I will start a new thread if you would like to keep going.

but just be aware of the ramifications if you are wrong (Matthew 18:6)

That just applies to me, correct? I mean, it's not at all possible for you to be wrong, right.

I am tired of you posting your twisted half truths.

Thank you for not calling me a complete liar! There must be some validity to what I have said.

How about you point those fingers back at your own with the same level of scrutiny?

I will if you will! Witnesses are always pointing their fingers at all other religions, but won't point them back at their own. Always making justification for their teachers errors and condemning other religions for theirs.
Christmas might just be the tip of the iceberg, ya know.....?
Easter is after that.....will you be celebrating that too? Where will I find "Easter" in the Bible?

You say this without ever asking if I celebrate holidays. My, my! But you don't judge people, do you?

But hey....whatever floats your boat.....we all have the same choices and we will all face the same judge.

That's where you're wrong Deeje, only the unrighteous are judged. I thought I already showed you that. :shrug:

John 5:28-29 (ESV Strong's) Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

How can a person who is not guilty of a crime have to face a judge? If we repent and ask for forgiveness for our sins, God is "just and faithful to forgive us", if He forgives us, why do we have to appear in front of Him as judge? And, as your "Spirit led" teachers claim,

*** bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: “The one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak.

Judgment will not focus on what we do before we die, correct? And if we are acquitted of our sins when we die, how can we be judged for them?

doing what Jesus commanded......are you out preaching with your brethren djh? (Acts 20:20) Will they be contacting me any time soon with the good news of the Kingdom?

I'll tell you one more time, NOT everyone is called/appointed to preach or teach Deeje. God has appointed teachers for the church. If everyone is supposed to be doing it, why would God appoint those teachers? Witnesses don't go out "preaching" they go out recruiting. You go out telling people about how bad the world is and that God has a plan for the FUTURE to make everything good.[/user]


Active Member
Premium Member
This bit of 'graffiti' has been dated to around 200 C.E. or thereabouts. It is our belief that after the death of the apostles,(end of the first century) Christianity began a rapid decline into apostasy as Jesus and the apostles had foretold. The "weeds" of false Christianity had well and truly sprouted by the second century. So we take nothing from the writings of that period (second century through to the foundation of Roman Catholicism in the 4th century) except perhaps for historic interest but certainly not for Biblical teachings.

There are other considerations that we must explore, to know what Jesus was executed on.
The verse at Deuteronomy 21:22,23, in the Original Autographs, used the word TREE, for what a person deserving of death would be hanged on, after he was put to death. By stoning. Many Bibles correctly say this.
Another thing to think about, is the fact that the word Stauros, which was, originally meant to be one post or stake, but later, as many words do, it was also used to symbolize the Cross. The same with the word Xylon. When a person was deserving of death, the person, after death should be hanged on a Tree. The important thing here was, to hang the person up so that people in the area would see him, and be afraid to commit the sin that he had committed.
Another thing to think about, what is the difference between a stake and a Tree? The tree has limbs!! This is why the term tree was used, when speaking of a Cross, a Cross has limbs, like a tree. We use this same symbolism today, hat Tree, a coat Tree, called that because of the limbs.
Another thing to consider is, at least Four contemporary writers said that Jesus was hanged on a Cross. At least one writer did not like Jesus or Christians, but he said Jesus was hanged on a Cross. The people living 2,000 years ago, because of not having as many years as we have to degenerate, had much more brain power than we do today. They knew the difference between a Cross and a stake.
Another point to think about is what was said at John 20:24,25. Here Thomas spoke of NAILS in Jesus hands. This would seem to show that Jesus was NOT put to death on a stake, for only ONE large nail was used in that case.
One last thing; the Roman soldiers were not stupid, and according to historians, this form of death was used on many Christians, not just Jesus. It is extremely hard to lift up a post with a person nailed to it and put it in a hole. The Romans would not do this! They way they did, was; they had a post already in the ground, and the tied or nailed the one to be crucified to a crossbeam then just lifted the crucified one up and connected it to the stake already in the ground, which was a much easier method and much quicker.
Really, if you think about it, the only thing that really points to the method used for Jesus was; what was the usual method the Romans used on Criminals that the considered extremely vial, which is what they thought of Jesus as can be easily seen by the way they treated him before he was crucified. They would have not thought that Jesus was an exception, they would have used their usual method.

From your link....

"The instrument of Jesus' crucifixion (known in Latin as crux, in Greek as stauros) is generally taken to have been composed of an upright wooden beam to which was added a transom, thus forming a "cruciform" or T-shaped structure.

Most Christian denominations present the Christian cross in this form, and the tradition of the T-shape can be traced to early Christianity and the Church fathers. However, some scholars of the late 19th century have maintained that it was in reality a simple stake (crux simplex). Various authorities have then linked the cross with nature worship and pagan sex rites. This view was adopted by the Jehovah's Witnesses."

The "tau" or cross with no intersecting cross piece was originally a religious symbol representing the god, Tammuz. (The initial of his name) It was in existence long before Christ . You can see from the image you posted above, that this is a tau, not a "Christian" cross, as this came later.

Tammuz was a deity over whom apostate Hebrew women in Jerusalem wept. It has been suggested that Tammuz was originally a king who was deified after his death. In Sumerian text, Tammuz is called Dumuzi and is identified as the consort or lover of the fertility goddess Inanna (the Babylonian Ishtar). (Ezekiel 8:14) This is probably the deified Nimrod.....the God who died in the winter but was resurrected in the spring. Easter has its roots here in northern hemisphere paganism.

If you like.....apostate Judaism was the forerunner of apostate Christianity. History repeats because people keep doing the things God told them not to do......like making images for use in worship.

From your link....

The Dura Europa Synagogue....is dated to 244 CE, making it one of the oldest synagogues in the world.

"Dura-Europos was a small garrison and trading city on the river Euphrates, and usually on the frontier between the Eastern Roman Empireand the Parthian and finally the Sassanid Empires of Persia. It changed hands at various points but was Roman from 165 CE. Before the final Persian destruction of the town in 256-257 CE, parts of the synagogue which abutted the main city wall were apparently requisitioned and filled with sand as a defensive measure. The city was abandoned after its fall and never resettled, and the lower walls of the rooms remained buried and largely intact until excavated. The excavations discovered also very important wall-paintings from places of worship of Christianity, at the Dura-Europos church, and Mithraism, and fragmentary Christian texts in Hebrew.

Because of the paintings adorning the walls, the synagogue was at first mistaken for a Greek temple, though this was quickly corrected by the vice-director of excavations Robert du Mesnil du Buisson in Les peintures de la synagogue de Doura-Europos (Rome, 1939). Mesnil also made detailed comparisons of the friezes from the Dura synagogue with those of the mithraeum, the Christian baptistery, and the temple of the Palmyrene gods.[1]"

Does this sound like it is remotely connected to either the Jewish religion mediated by Moses with its total prohibition on the use of images (Exodus 20:4-5) or the Christianity taught be Jesus and his disciples......or is it more akin to the apostate version that sprang up after the second century? The Romans loved Mithra and incorporated their worship of this deity into what became known as Christmas.

He was speaking about the death of Christ, his taking the shame of sinful mankind in the manner of his death....not glorifying the instrument used to murder him.

Jesus was executed “by hanging on a tree.” (Acts 5:30, The New Jerusalem Bible) Both of the words used by Bible writers to describe the instrument of Jesus’ death suggest one piece of wood, not two. The Greek word stau·rosʹ, according to Crucifixion in Antiquity, means “a pole in the broadest sense. It is not the equivalent of a ‘cross.’” The word xyʹlon, used at Acts 5:30, is “simply an upright pale or stake to which the Romans nailed those who were thus said to be crucified.

The Bible relates the method of Jesus’ execution to an ancient Israelite law. The law stipulated: “If a man commits a sin deserving the sentence of death and he has been put to death and you have hung him on a stake, . . . the one hung up is something accursed of God.” (Deuteronomy 21:22, 23) Referring to that law, the Christian apostle Paul wrote that Jesus became a curse instead of us, because it is written: ‘Accursed is every man hung upon a stake [xyʹlon].’” (Galatians 3:13)

Paul knew exactly what he meant....shame the Churches don't.


Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
You always claim that there were at least a few people who believed as you do throughout history....

If I may add my two cents....not even we ourselves believe the teachings we espoused 100 years ago. it’s been refined....so many differences! We now recognize that there’s a hope for living here on Earth forever, Isaiah 45:18, Psalms 115:16, Matthew 5:5, Revelation 21:3-4 (before 1935, we thought the hope was only heaven); we at one time celebrated holidays....I mean, it goes on and on!

I guess the one constant, has been exalting Jehovah as God, elevating His worship.

Here’s one:


The whole article is interesting!