I want to believe in God -- but I can't.

[idea]

Thank you for all the responses and advice guys, however I believe I have come to my own conclusion.

Since it is impossible for me to truly believe in something that makes no sense, I won't. I don't want to say I am an atheist, agnostic would be a more accurate term but I can now comfortably say, "No I do not believe in a god."

I feel like my mind has been freed, and that I am able to see beauty in the world that I was not able to see before. I am just going to live my life and appreciate it.

If you are curious how I came about this, it is because I have been listening to Richard Dawkins for the past couple of nights (literrally hours and hours of his speeches, interviews, and excerpts from his book, "The God Delusion" )and I have found everything he says to be nothing short of enlightening.

To anyone else on the fence about religion, I recommend you listen to this man as insight to other possibilities (based on evidence). He has a lot of great speeches on YouTube and QnA sessions run by followers of religion themselves, and you can always check out his books.

He changed my life in 2 nights.

Well that is very sad.

Keep in mind anyone can prove anything...
a = b
a^2 = ab
a^2 - b^2 = ab-b^2
(a-b)*(a+b) = b(a-b)
a+b = b
b+b = b
2b = b
2 = 1
above is a joke, a more serious link here

Also, there is a difference between natural and spiritual things. Religion is about what is spiritual in life...

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Trying to discern the things of God through natural means is like a scientist trying to be a psychologist. A fish out of water. It just does not work.

At least you have broken away from your previous church though. That should at least give you a more open mind to consider more possibilities.

Good luck to you on your journey!
Idea

 

[Embrace]

The only scientific way scientists try to disprove God is through the argument that you have no reason to believe something there is no evidence for, making your own religion just as plausible as Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, or the worship of Zeus.

Therefore I can't take anything seriously you quote out of a text merely from the religion you chanced to grow up with. There is a chance you are right, but that chance is so tiny I find little comfort in it.

 

[crystalonyx]

The only scientific way scientists try to disprove God is through the argument that you have no reason to believe something there is no evidence for, making your own religion just as plausible as Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, or the worship of Zeus.

Therefore I can't take anything seriously you quote out of a text merely from the religion you chanced to grow up with. There is a chance you are right, but that chance is so tiny I find little comfort in it.

The onus is on god believers to prove that god exists, not vice versa. find Bertrand Russells" "teacup in orbit" discussion on the internet.

 

[Storm]

The onus is on god believers to prove that god exists, not vice versa. find Bertrand Russells" "teacup in orbit" discussion on the internet.

No, the BoP is on anyone who makes positive claim. Nonbelievers can do this as easily as believers.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Embrace,

I want to believe in God -- but I can't.

There is no god anywhere. It is just a concept huamns developed. It makes no difference wether you believe in that concept or not as you would still remain a part of the whole like evrything in existence.
If you have some preconceived notion about any god then surely it needs to be cleared off before you start afresh in any direction.
Love & rgds

 

[Wandered Off]

I want to believe in God, I want to be assured entrance into Heaven, but it is impossible.

You have hit upon an uncomfortable (for some) truth: We do not control our beliefs as much as we'd like to think. You cannot simply choose to believe something. A change in belief has to be accompanied by a catalyst, usually something external.

At best, we can influence our beliefs by acting as a gatekeeper of incoming information. For example, if you choose never to listen or read anything about a particular religion, you can prevent that belief. However, if you have exposure to it, I don't think you can choose whether you believe it or not. It will either fit with your pre-existing outlook, be a catalyst for a new outlook, or be rejected as anything other than information, all beyond your conscious choice.

This is precisely where doctrines that depict divine judgment based on our beliefs fail. We would be judged for items beyond our direct control, which is a form of bigotry IMO.

 

[idea]

The only scientific way scientists try to disprove God is through the argument that you have no reason to believe something there is no evidence for, making your own religion just as plausible as Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, or the worship of Zeus.

Therefore I can't take anything seriously you quote out of a text merely from the religion you chanced to grow up with. There is a chance you are right, but that chance is so tiny I find little comfort in it.

I am a convert - the reason I believe is not because that is how I grew up. I do not share the same faith as my parents. The reason I believe is because the Holy Spirit is real - can and does communicate with us. ..

1 Cor 12:3 ....no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I have no doubt whatsoever that God is real because the Holy Spirit – an actual being – has born powerful witness to me that He is. I know that God is real with the same surety that I know my husband is real, or that my children are real. My belief does not come from a book, or from a preacher, or from any person. My knowledge comes from experience. Personal experience is the only way you can know the truth of anything. Seek for your own personal experience, and you will find God. A fully real God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
from link

“If one man can live upon the revelations given to another, might not I with propriety ask, why the necessity, then, of the Lord speaking to Isaac as he did, as is recorded in the 26th chapter of Genesis? For the Lord there repeats, or rather promises again, to perform the oath which he had previously sworn unto Abraham. And why this repetition to Isaac? Why was not the first promise as sure for Isaac as it was for Abraham? Was not Isaac Abraham’s son? And could he not place implicit confidence in the word of his father as being a man of God? Perhaps you may say that he was a very peculiar man and different from men in these last days; consequently, the Lord favored him with blessings peculiar and different, as he was different from men in this age. I admit that he was a peculiar man and was not only peculiarly blessed, but greatly blessed. But all the peculiarity that I can discover in the man, or all the difference between him and men in this age, is that he was more holy and more perfect before God and came to him with a purer heart and more faith than men in this day.

“The same might be said on the subject of Jacob’s history. Why was it that the Lord spake to him concerning the same promise after he had made it once to Abraham and renewed it to Isaac? Why could not Jacob rest contented upon the word spoken to his fathers?

“When the time of the promise drew nigh for the deliverance of the children of Israel from the land of Egypt, why was it necessary that the Lord should begin to speak to them? The promise or word to Abraham was that his seed should serve in bondage and be afflicted four hundred years, and after that they should come out with great substance. Why did they not rely upon this promise and, when they had remained in Egypt in bondage four hundred years, come out without waiting for further revelation, but act entirely upon the promise given to Abraham that they should come out? …

“… I may believe that Enoch walked with God. I may believe that Abraham communed with God and conversed with angels. I may believe that Isaac obtained a renewal of the covenant made to Abraham by the direct voice of the Lord. I may believe that Jacob conversed with holy angels and heard the word of his Maker, that he wrestled with the angel until he prevailed and obtained a blessing. I may believe that Elijah was taken to heaven in a chariot of fire with fiery horses. I may believe that the saints saw the Lord and conversed with him face to face after his resurrection. I may believe that the Hebrew church came to Mount Zion and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels. I may believe that they looked into eternity and saw the Judge of all, and Jesus, the Mediator of the new covenant.

“But will all this purchase an assurance for me, or waft me to the regions of eternal day with my garments spotless, pure, and white? Or, must I not rather obtain for myself, by my own faith and diligence in keeping the commandments of the Lord, an assurance of salvation for myself? And have I not an equal privilege with the ancient saints? And will not the Lord hear my prayers and listen to my cries as soon as he ever did to theirs if I come to him in the manner they did?”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
James 5:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

 

[Quagmire]

I feel like my mind has been freed, and that I am able to see beauty in the world that I was not able to see before. I am just going to live my life and appreciate it.
.

I think that's great!

 

[reeferreaper]

appreciation of life is the most beautiful part of the lack of belief.

 

[Quagmire]

appreciation of life is the most beautiful part of the lack of belief.

The appreciation of life is one of the things (possibly more than any other thing) that reaffirms my beliefs, and visa-versa.

I understand what you're saying though; part of the subtext of the faith I was raised in was that enjoyment of life is itself a kind of sin.

 

[Embrace]

Ok. I'm not going to feel embarrassed or dumb when I can honestly say I didn't understand a word of what you just quoted.

I'm sure that what you took from the link is extremely insightful, but the language used was awfully confusing to an average guy, so confusing that I may just believe it because it sounds smart.

Either way, I understood the quote from the bible easily. I have stated before that my faith was wavering, so therefore (according to the quote), God cannot help me if I pray for answers. However, I wouldn't have questions if my faith was unwavering.

Could you elaborate on how you discovered the Holy Spirit in your life?

I respect your personal beliefs, just as I'm sure you would respect mine if I said I am actually a worshiper of the god Jupiter.

 

[Sonic247]

What do you know about the Holy Spirit so far?

 

[Embrace]

What do you know about the Holy Spirit so far?

Little to none. Only that it is also God?

 

[Muffled]

Ok. I'm not going to feel embarrassed or dumb when I can honestly say I didn't understand a word of what you just quoted.

I'm sure that what you took from the link is extremely insightful, but the language used was awfully confusing to an average guy, so confusing that I may just believe it because it sounds smart.

Either way, I understood the quote from the bible easily. I have stated before that my faith was wavering, so therefore (according to the quote), God cannot help me if I pray for answers. However, I wouldn't have questions if my faith was unwavering.

Could you elaborate on how you discovered the Holy Spirit in your life?

I respect your personal beliefs, just as I'm sure you would respect mine if I said I am actually a worshiper of the god Jupiter.

Belief is not an easy thing to acquire. Asking questions is not likely to formulate beliefs. My guess is that the questions come from already established beliefs and the answers will reflect that.

So you ask the question: Is there a God? It means that you already don't believe
there is one and the answer to your question that is accepptable is that there is none.

Most people develop a belief that God doesn't exist out of wishful thinking. If God doesn't exist then they can do whatever they want without fear of judgement.

My daughter believes that God hates her but the truth is that she loves her sin and ends up paying for it. God loves her but she rejects that love because it would mean giving up her sins. I suppose she could complain that God doesn't let her sin and then take away the penalty of that sin. Say get drunk but not get sick, have a hangover or do anything stupid while drunk and preserve the liver.

 

[Wandered Off]

Most people develop a belief that God doesn't exist out of wishful thinking. If God doesn't exist then they can do whatever they want without fear of judgement.

I would counter that most people develop a belief that God does exist out of wishful thinking. The notion that the most powerful being in the universe created you in his image and that all the universe was created so you would keep him company makes us feel special. We're the focus of divine attention. Our souls are so valuable that the two most powerful beings in existence fight a cosmic war to win them. We can ask for extra help when we're down, and people who do whatever they want will be punished in the end, even if they escape earthly justice. That looks just as much like wishful thinking to me.

 

[idea]

Ok. I'm not going to feel embarrassed or dumb when I can honestly say I didn't understand a word of what you just quoted.

I'm sure that what you took from the link is extremely insightful, but the language used was awfully confusing to an average guy, so confusing that I may just believe it because it sounds smart.

Either way, I understood the quote from the bible easily. I have stated before that my faith was wavering, so therefore (according to the quote), God cannot help me if I pray for answers. However, I wouldn't have questions if my faith was unwavering.

Could you elaborate on how you discovered the Holy Spirit in your life?

I respect your personal beliefs, just as I'm sure you would respect mine if I said I am actually a worshiper of the god Jupiter.

Sorry about the cut-n-paste. The point of it was that in the Bible people gained their testimony through the Holy Spirit, not through the words of their father, or from a book. You can learn by reading the Bible, but to know the truth of it, the Holy Spirit is needed.

1 Cor 12: 3 … no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Here are two examples of how I have experienced the Holy Spirit.

My first encounter -

One Sunday, with nothing better to do, I tagged along with *** to church. *** was assigned to teach a class of 12 and 13 year olds, I did not know anyone else at the church, and not mature/brave enough to just go into a meeting on my own so I followed **** into his class, and sat down with the other little kids. A little embarrassing for an adult to be sitting in on a primary class, but I would have been embarrassed anywhere I went. The class was on the plan of salvation. **** drew on the board circles and lines representing the pre-existence, earth, prison/paradise, and the celestial/telestial/terrestrial glories. As I sat looking at the chalkboard I became aware of a power in the room that was above and beyond what my eyes were telling me was there. This power came inside of me, opened my mind, and bore a powerful witness to me that what I was looking at was true –It was the moment that changed everything – where religion went from people trying to be goodie-two-shoes stuck-up self-righteous prideful control freaks trying to manipulate me and force me into guilt trips – sorry – but that had become my viewpoint of Christian churches – though deep down I felt atheism was somehow wrong – Religion became real, so real it hurt.

Just another comment – I did not ask for this experience, I was not expecting it, the teacher, nor the other students in the class, no one else was aware of what I was personally experiencing. It was not group hallucination, or some group frenzy or anything. (OK - The kids were climbing on their chairs and being obnoxious kids - it was at least not an attempted "spiritual" frenzy J) I was not on drugs, I have no mental illnesses. What I experienced was real.

Ex 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge

1 Cor 2: 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


The Holy spirit has the ability to open your mind, can actually talk to you with a voice. I have only heard his voice once – I like to think in the shower, I was going over a big decision I had, if I should go on to grad school or not, I was arguing with myself in my head, thinking over the pros and cons of it, I thought “If I go will I even make it through?” In answer to this question a voice – as clear as if someone were standing in the room right next to me – a voice told me “You’ll make it”. Scared the H*** out of me!!! I thought someone else was in the bathroom! I grabbed the towel, looked around, no one was there. Well, someone was there, I just could not see them. In any event, I am now aware that our thoughts are not private affairs. I did go on, and I did make it. Those three words actually got me through a lot.

new understanding of Matt 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
He knows more about us than we would like to admit...

The Holy Spirit is described as the “still small voice”
1 Kings 19:11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

Also, a warmth, or a fire that creeps through your body.
Matt 3: 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire

Receiving the Holy Ghost is part of baptism:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

The point is, the Holy Spirit is real.

Another note, we are accountable for what we know. It is possible to know, not just believe.

Luke 12:
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

We will not be given knowledge that we are currently unable to act on. The Holy Spirit is given at the right place, for the right purpose, at the right time.

Little to none. Only that it is also God?

I will refrain from starting in on the trinity doctrine... I will only say that no one (that I know) recognizes the Nicene Creed as canonized scripture.

 

[Charity]

Thank you for all the responses and advice guys, however I believe I have come to my own conclusion.

Since it is impossible for me to truly believe in something that makes no sense, I won't. I don't want to say I am an atheist, agnostic would be a more accurate term but I can now comfortably say, "No I do not believe in a god."

I feel like my mind has been freed, and that I am able to see beauty in the world that I was not able to see before. I am just going to live my life and appreciate it.

If you are curious how I came about this, it is because I have been listening to Richard Dawkins for the past couple of nights (literrally hours and hours of his speeches, interviews, and excerpts from his book, "The God Delusion" )and I have found everything he says to be nothing short of enlightening.

To anyone else on the fence about religion, I recommend you listen to this man as insight to other possibilities (based on evidence). He has a lot of great speeches on YouTube and QnA sessions run by followers of religion themselves, and you can always check out his books.

He changed my life in 2 nights.

I think that you already had pre-concieved ideas about what you wanted to believe. If your choice makes you happy then I personally wish you the best.....You say Dawkins changed your life in 2 nights, Jesus changed my mind in 3 days.

 

[DarkSun]

Well that is very sad.

Keep in mind anyone can prove anything...
a = b
a^2 = ab
a^2 - b^2 = ab-b^2
(a-b)*(a+b) = b(a-b)
a+b = b
b+b = b
2b = b
2 = 1

:biglaugh:ROFLMFAO!

Frubals for you! XD That's hillarious! XD The saddest thing is that there's no error in there! XD

 

[DarkSun]

I found the flaw in that today. =P My bad. XD

You know the line that says:

(a-b)*(a+b) = b(a-b)

Well, we know that

a-b = a-b

Therefore, that leaves a + b = b

But what I was doing (without thinking) was dividing by zero, which can't be done.

Sorry about that. ^_^"""

 

[evolve2love]

First of all THANK YOU. There is one quality I value above all and that is HONESTY.
Thank God there are honest people.

I think GOD IS LOVE God is in charge of our conscience. Deep down we all know what to do and it does not matter which 'face' you think fits.

Different people, different cultures, different symbols and rules. One spirit at the end of the day.

Did you know that Witches worship 2 deities one male and one female? They believe that when these two are in perfect harmony they work as one. They're faith is built on trust. They put trust above most things starting with trusting your own judgement.
Did you know that Mohammed agreed that Jesus had found The God but disagreed with his interpretation of God's will so he re-interpretated it. That Allah in Arabic means 'he who calls himself God'?

Just find the path that leads you in the most comfortable way to God. What you are describing is THE PATH.
DO NOT CONFUSE MANS FUTILE ATTEMPTS TO PRESCRIBE THE RIGHT PATH TO GOD WITH GOD.
They are all valid because all faiths eventually produce wise men/women.
That's all we can hope for in the end Wisdom -and maybe a bit of fun along the way.
I HOPE YOU MEET GOD ONE DAY. IT IS A TRULY UPLIFTING EXPERIENCE.