I really wish I believed

[Storm Moon]

So you're saying that we shouldn't have emotions at all? I don't see the sense in that.

 

[Katzpur]

Thanks for your reply. I'm curious....do you pray, and if you do, do you feel that you commune with God?

Actually, I do. I pray intently and often. It's very difficult for me to explain, but it's almost as if I was born believing that there was a God, a Higher Power who knows me personally. Was I taught this as a child? Yes I was, and it's obviously part of why I believe it. My sister, on the other hand, was taught exactly the same things as I was taught, is agnostic. I see us both as intelligent, rational human beings.

I have often wondered if maybe God's "all in my head," and have even tried to convince myself that that could be the case. Something deep inside me, though, won't let me believe it. I just "know" -- as much as it is possible for anyone to know -- that I have a Father in Heaven and that He knows me, cares about me, and answers my prayers.

Am I just completely out in left field? Is He there and I don't hear him?

You're not out in left field at all. I don't see theists and atheists (or agnostics) as being all that different fundamentally. I don't believe that intelligence or moral decency have anything to do with whether a person believes in God or not. Some people simply have faith in something they cannot see or prove; others don't. For me, it's as simple as that.

 

[jonny]

I don't think I believe in God anymore, but I really wish I could. I particularly wish I could believe in an afterlife. I find death extremely scary now that I don't

The first step to believing is desire. It sounds like you got that. Now, you need to ask yourself what is keeping you from turning that desire into action.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

When I say I'm "saved", I mean that in the past, I have gone through the "ritual" of asking Jesus Christ to come into my life and forgive my sins. I have prayed that prayer in earnest. People call that being "saved". But I don't feel saved. I don't feel connected. I feel lost. And I have tried very hard to connect with God, and I don't feel a connection. that's why I'm here on this site at this hour. It is very disturbing to me that I feel so disconnected.

Been there.



That's a very scary position, when you've gone through all the necessary rituals that you've been told you must perform and *POOF*, all worries, pain, and fear are promised to be wiped away by the blood of Christ. For me, that's where the real fear and misery began. I consulted with pastors, peer counselors, and anyone who I could get my hands on who were Christian, but none could give a perspective that brought peace of mind.


I prayed and prayed, cried, tore some of my hair out terrified of dying in my sleep, and prayed some more to Jesus and to God the Father. Nothing was there except more fear and more desperation, so I understand what you're going through. I felt like a fraud every time I stepped in to church and professing anything akin to the Nicene Creed.



Not that I expect you to give up all rational thought and come to the "dark side" called Tibetan Buddhism like I wound up doing. For me, studying the Dharma brought a peace of mind that nothing else ever did.............to me it speaks the ultimate truth, but I can't prescribe that to everyone since I don't believe the truth reveals itself the same way to everyone.



If it makes you feel any better, a LOT of people here and elsewhere have walked in your shoes, and they have every opportunity to still wind up being decent human beings. Some have found their way back to Christ with a much deeper understanding and a good dose of wisdom and perspective. Some have found other practices or have found a "home" that defines reality and ethics in a language they understand completely.



Good luck!



Peace,
Mystic

 

[rasor]

Oh definitely--once you're actually dead, if it really is just the end, you don't know. But the thought of consciousness being gone forever scares the bejeesus out of me.

Did it scare you all the milleniure before you were born? Of course not.Just thank your lucky stars you were one of your mothers eggs which won the jackpot.think of all those possible people who missed out on the chance of 3 score years and ten :yes:

 

[Beachcomber]

Thanks for answering me Mystic,
You say that you are from the "dark side" and I think your title says Tibetan buddist. I will have to look that up to see what it means. I know of the Dali Lama and he seems to be in peace himself and is in high demand to spread his "peace". But other than that I don't know much about him or Buddism....I will have to study.
Why do you say your belief is "dark"? I'm so glad I found this website so I can ask my questions without anyone getting freaked out that I might be questioning things. I am surrounded by good old-fashioned fundamentalist Christians, and I'm also a schoolteacher, and so I don't dare allow anyone to think that I'm anything other than, for fear they might get alarmed about just who is teaching their children. Not that we speak of religion in the classroom, but this is a small town.....you probably know how it goes.

 

[rasor]

Thanks for answering me Mystic,
I am surrounded by good old-fashioned fundamentalist Christians, and I'm also a schoolteacher, and so I don't dare allow anyone to think that I'm anything other than, for fear they might get alarmed about just who is teaching their children. Not that we speak of religion in the classroom, but this is a small town.....you probably know how it goes.

Ahh, the power of Religion.I feel sorry for you having to live with people like that.

 

[PureX]

The first step to believing is desire. It sounds like you got that. Now, you need to ask yourself what is keeping you from turning that desire into action.

Jonny is right. Faith is hope put into action. You don't need to "believe" in God, necessarily. You just need to hope, and then live by that hope. If you do that, you will find it yeilds positive results even without a set "belief". It's the practice of faith that saves us, heals us, and changes us, not our "beliefs".

 

[lombas]

I wanted to believe during all 12 years at Jesuit college.

Then, three years in university, one day, I believed. One day, one event.

 

[lombas]

It's the practice of faith that saves us, heals us, and changes us, not our "beliefs".

That sounds a bit strange. So if you don't ask too much questions but do things by the book, you can be at ease? Or what do you mean saying that?

 

[PureX]

Sometimes we have to let go of our religion to find our God, again. The religious dogma deadens the experience of living to the point where there's no more "magic" and mystery and wonder in it.

When the bible has become dead to our eyes, it's time to put it away, and go swimming, or walking in the woods, or something else physical, so that God can become real and good, again.

Remember that God IS that sunshine on your face, and that cool fresh air entering your lungs, and the water pushing against your skin, and the touch of your lover's hand.

We don't need to "believe" to find God. And in fact sometimes we need to STOP believing to find God.

 

[PureX]

That sounds a bit strange. So if you don't ask too much questions but do things by the book, you can be at ease? Or what do you mean saying that?

Faith is hope in action. Faith is not a belief. When we need healing, we need faith, we need action, we need change, not "belief".

Faith changes us because faith is action. Beliefs stop us from changing because the first thing we believe is that we're right. And if we already believe we're right, we won't see any need for changing ourselves ... only others.

Hope for the best, and then live accordingly. That's faith in action. What we believe isn't very relevant. It's what we do that matters.

 

[lombas]

I still don't understand. I believe in God, but I'll be the last to claim I'm "right" in doing so. And why should it stop me from changing? In what way? I never wanted to 'change' other people or to evangelize my faith.

And I don't see the difference between faith and belief. In my language there are no different words for what is intended by the English words.

You could translate faith as "geloof (faith), vertrouwen (trust)", which has the same meaning in Latin (credere) and belief "overtuiging" which translates back into English as "convince'ment'". So there are no real differences.

 

[Willamena]

Everyone believes in themselves, no? That solidifies them, so to speak, as a walking, talking set of beliefs. You carry all the things you know are right around with you wherever you go. It's what you are; and if it's right, why should it change?

 

[PureX]

I believe in God, but I'll be the last to claim I'm "right" in doing so.

But what exactly do you mean when you say that you "believe in" God? Isn't your "belief" in this case simply a hope you hold on to, and live by? If it were not a hope, but something more concrete like presumed knowledge, then you could claim to be "right" in what you believe, as so many folks do.

And why should it stop me from changing? In what way? I never wanted to 'change' other people or to evangelize my faith.

That's because you are talking about real faith. Real faith does not presume to be knowledge, and therefor does not presume to be "right". Thus, you are able to change and grow as experiences dictate. But for those who "believe" (presume to know) that their idea of God right, they have no reason to change or grow. In fact, they have reason to resist change and growth, because in resisting these they will protect their righteousness.

And I don't see the difference between faith and belief. In my language there are no different words for what is intended by the English words.

Faith is what we must rely in when we do not presume to know what is or will happen. Belief is the presumption of knowing what is or will happen. This is the difference.

You could translate faith as "geloof (faith), vertrouwen (trust)", which has the same meaning in Latin (credere) and belief "overtuiging" which translates back into English as "convince'ment'". So there are no real differences.

But trust and conviction are two very different states of mind, that result in two very different courses of action.

 

[PureX]

Everyone believes in themselves, no? That solidifies them, so to speak, as a walking, talking set of beliefs. You carry all the things you know are right around with you wherever you go. It's what you are; and if it's right, why should it change?

We can believe that we are right, while still knowing that we may be wrong. The human mind is capable of more than one idea at a time. This is why we humans perceive paradox. And in fact, the truth of reality is that many different things are true simaltaneously, even things that contradict each other.

 

[lombas]

But what exactly do you mean when you say that you "believe in" God? Isn't your "belief" in this case simply a hope you hold on to, and live by? If it were not a hope, but something more concrete like presumed knowledge, then you could claim to be "right" in what you believe, as so many folks do.

That's because you are talking about real faith. Real faith does not presume to be knowledge, and therefor does not presume to be "right". Thus, you are able to change and grow as experiences dictate. But for those who "believe" (presume to know) that their idea of God right, they have no reason to change or grow. In fact, they have reason to resist change and growth, because in resisting these they will protect their righteousness.

Faith is what we must rely in when we do not presume to know what is or will happen. Belief is the presumption of knowing what is or will happen. This is the difference.
But trust and conviction are two very different states of mind, that result in two very different courses of action.

Right, I think I understand the difference now between faith and belief, and I understand why you pay much attention to it. I never saw it that way, just used the two words as synonyms like in Dutch.

So what I should say is "I have faith in God"?

 

[PureX]

Right, I think I understand the difference now between faith and belief, and I understand why you pay much attention to it. I never saw it that way, just used the two words as synonyms like in Dutch.

So what I should say is "I have faith in God"?

Yes, if you have faith in God, then why not say so? I think it's far more honest and accurate than saying "I believe in God". What does that even mean?

"I believe in houses." What does that mean? "I believe in love." What does that mean? I don't know what it means to "believe in" something. However, I understand what it means to trust in something, or to put my faith in something, or to hope for something. And that's what I think we're really doing with the idea of "God".

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Everyone believes in themselves, no? That solidifies them, so to speak, as a walking, talking set of beliefs. You carry all the things you know are right around with you wherever you go. It's what you are; and if it's right, why should it change?

I agree! The Self is a collection of things that are identified together. Personal beliefs are a part of it. The Self changes over time, with the collection of new information. Beliefs change.

There is nothing wrong with believing in something simply because a person wants to. Belief can be a tool that helps us function. The trick is discovering how to do so.

 

[Nanda]

I don't think I believe in God anymore, but I really wish I could. I particularly wish I could believe in an afterlife. I find death extremely scary now that I don't

I used to envy people their religious beliefs for this very reason, but ultimately, what you have to realize is that when the end comes, you won't be aware of it. I still get scared from time to time - I can't help that, and I'm not going to pretend that I don't - but no amount of fear has ever been able to produce any legitimate belief in a god. Your best bet is to focus on the here and now, and not spend your life living in fear of its end - you wouldn't want to miss it. :hug: