I need definition help!!

[Shell-Shocked]

:help:
I'm having a debate with someone in another forum who keeps trying to tell me atheism is a religion. I know it is not! They posted the definition of "religion" (from dictionary.com) and said that atheists share a common belief, so therefore that makes it a religion. I said atheists share a common disbelief, and therfore it isn't a religion! You can't make a religion out of not believing something. I went even further to give them a definition of atheism (via dictionary.com) and told them that every definition of religion says something about how a religion "usually has a set of morals/ethics often agreed upon by a sect or group". Atheists don't have a common moral ground. In fact, the only thing they do have in common is not believing in god!

They replied "usually... not always."

That's it? How lame! I gave three valid reasons and they toss me one lame one?? So I argued again that every definition of religion says it has a moral standard, and atheism does not. So how can it be religion? It seems to me that they are just incapable of accepting the idea that someone does not have a religion, so they need to make it one.

Can anyone help me out here?? Find me a definition/explaination that might settle that no, atheism is not a religion no matter how bad this person seems to want it to be?

 

[yossarian22]

Throw the old
'if atheism is a religion, not collecting stamps is a hobby' quote at them. Or just point out that religion implies a supernatural controlling agency, which atheism rejects.
Or there is Oxford
Religion: The belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2 the expression of this in worship. 3 a particular system of faith and worship.

 

[Tiberius]

It sounds like they are defining anything involving faith as a religion. If so, then believing the sun is going to rise tomorrow is a religion, because it could disappear during the night. heck it takes light from the sun about 8 minutes to reach us, so the sun could have vanished five minutes ago and we won't know about it for another 3 minutes!

If atheism is a religion, then so is the-sun-is-still-there-ianism and also my-bed-continues-to-exist-even-when-no-one-is-watching-it-ism.

Atheism is a LACK of belief, whereas religion is HAVING a belief. If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair colour.

 

[zenzero]

friend Shell Shocked,
Sorry to shock you futher, here.
Religion has other connotations like the given dictionary meaning:
religiously - with extreme conscientiousness; "he came religiously every morning at 8 o'clock"
conscientiously, scrupulously
So if athesits are doing something religiously it becomes their religion.
It is simple as that.
However it makes no difference if you win or lose an argument; the difference lies about knowing and understanding TRUTH. Truth is that objects are not objects as they are all atoms when broken down and atoms consits of protons / neutrons etc. which are like electricity or energy.
If athesits sees materila things as things then too it is not correct as explained above.
Need to seek deeper to understand TRUTH.
Love & rgds

 

[PureX]

You can't control what other people think any more than they can control what you think. If someone chooses to believe that atheism is a religion, you won't be able to change their belief by reason, or any other method.

Perhaps it would be more instructive to ask yourself why you're bothering to argue with this person.

 

[Popeyesays]

That some atheists become evangelical mimics religion very closely, does it not?

Regards,
Scott

 

[Valjean]

Atheism is a lack of belief, not any sort of ideology.

Does your friend believe in Thor? No? Then does he aknowledge that he is of the a-Thorist religion?

 

[Shell-Shocked]

Perhaps it would be more instructive to ask yourself why you're bothering to argue with this person.

Funny you should say...

I did in fact ask myself this very thing, and I know that no matter how much I make good points he will never agree with me. I just cannot stand when a theist is like "I cannot comprehand this 'no god theory' you speak of, so I'm gonna mold you into something I like." And that simply drives me crazy.

And to Zenzero: "Religiously" is an adjective. "Religion" is a noun. You are defining something entirely different. And going with that, atheists are not doing something religiously. Taking a negative action isn't actually doing something- it's not doing anything. You can't build a religion on religiously not acting.

 

[rojse]

Apart from a disbelief in God, atheists share nothing. Some of us believe in certain scientific theories, others do not. Some atheists are spiritual, others are not. Some believe in pseudoscientific ideas, others abhor them. Even the reason why an atheists rejects the idea of God greatly vary between different people. A book that appeals to my atheistic beliefs might be shunned by another atheist.

The only thing in common between any two atheists is their belief that God does not exist.

 

[fantome profane]

:help:
They posted the definition of "religion" (from dictionary.com) and said that atheists share a common belief, so therefore that makes it a religion. I said atheists share a common disbelief, and therfore it isn't a religion!

Did you actually go to dictionary.com yourself and look up the definition of religion? Here it is, and I cannot see anyplace where is says that any commonly held belief constitutes a religion. It does make reference to a “set of beliefs”, but never to a single belief. Atheism is not a set of beliefs.

re·li·gion</SPAN> /r&#618;&#712;l&#618;d&#658; &#601;n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uh n] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.


3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.


4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.


5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.


6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.


7.
religions, Archaic. religious rites.


8.
Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom

9.
get religion, Informal.
a.
to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.

b.
to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.



[Origin: 1150–1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religi&#333;n- (s. of religi&#333;) conscientiousness, piety, equiv. to relig(&#257;re) to tie, fasten (re- re- + lig&#257;re to bind, tie; cf. ligament) + -i&#333;n- -ion; cf. rely ]


—Related forms

re·li·gion·less, adjective

 

[zenzero]

Freind Shell-Shocked,
Frankly agree that there is no-god same time agree with those that god exists. Both are correct from there own point of view as both are defined by the logic that comes from the mind.
Mind matter are irrelevant.
Self realisation is important than winning debates.
Self can be realised only when the mind is dropped.
Both atheist / non athesits can never proove anything which is TRUTH.
The only way is to live truth. Then others will know it of its own accord.
Love & rgds

 

[Shell-Shocked]

Did you actually go to dictionary.com yourself and look up the definition of religion? [/quote]

Yep I did. An I used those words exactly to disprove that the definition implies atheism is religion. Because as we all know, atheists don't necessarily share the same belief system or ideals. The only one they can all agree on is there is no god.

And Zenzero... I honestly am not sure what you're talking about. I don't know if you're trying to be profound or trying to give me a life lesson or what. But if it's important to you... well, ok then.

 

[ChristineES]

Being a diplomat, I would agree to disagree. You won't be able to convince that person and it doesn't look like you will be convinced, either.

 

[rojse]

I came up with an excellent analogy for atheism against theism. Ask them "is wearing nothing a new type of clothing?"

 

[Shell-Shocked]

I came up with an excellent analogy for atheism against theism. Ask them "is wearing nothing a new type of clothing?"

That's pretty clever. I'll use that. Although the correct response to that would be "The Emperor's new clothing made him appear nude to all those who could not see the Truth!"

 

[zenzero]

friend Shell-shocked,

And Zenzero... I honestly am not sure what you're talking about. I don't know if you're trying to be profound or trying to give me a life lesson or what. But if it's important to you... well, ok then.

Yes, what is talked about is something which few understood or understand.
Nothing is more important; whether god exists or not, makes no difference. there is no reason to convince anyone about it. Whcihever way one looks at it the SELF itself is the proof of it.
Love & rgds

 

[rojse]

That's pretty clever. I'll use that. Although the correct response to that would be "The Emperor's new clothing made him appear nude to all those who could not see the Truth!"

Tell them if you are Emperor, you can order them about like chattels.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Freind Shell-Shocked,
...
Both atheist / non athesits .....

Hmmm...Non-atheist, the better word for theist

 

[rojse]

That should nearly be a smiley.

 

[Orontes]

:help:
I'm having a debate with someone in another forum who keeps trying to tell me atheism is a religion. I know it is not! They posted the definition of "religion" (from dictionary.com) and said that atheists share a common belief, so therefore that makes it a religion. I said atheists share a common disbelief, and therfore it isn't a religion! You can't make a religion out of not believing something. I went even further to give them a definition of atheism (via dictionary.com) and told them that every definition of religion says something about how a religion "usually has a set of morals/ethics often agreed upon by a sect or group". Atheists don't have a common moral ground. In fact, the only thing they do have in common is not believing in god!

They replied "usually... not always."

That's it? How lame! I gave three valid reasons and they toss me one lame one?? So I argued again that every definition of religion says it has a moral standard, and atheism does not. So how can it be religion? It seems to me that they are just incapable of accepting the idea that someone does not have a religion, so they need to make it one.

Can anyone help me out here?? Find me a definition/explaination that might settle that no, atheism is not a religion no matter how bad this person seems to want it to be?

Hello,

I think the fellow you are arguing with is confused. I also think its a mistake to reference dictionaries when considering the meaning of concepts. Dictionary definitions rarely provide the necessary precision. Even so, the definition put forward by your 'friend' from Dictionary.com doesn't allow one to qualify atheism as a religion. You will note that the various definitions put forward are plural: "set of beliefs", "specific fundamental set of beliefs" etc. Atheism is not a set of beliefs, but a singular stance (like its opposite theism) regarding a metaphysical absolute: whether one asserts or rejects the existence of such an absolute, it remains a singular position and singular positions are not in and of themselves a religion any more than asserting 'Paris exists' or 'Santa Claus exists' would be. In the simplest logical terms, atheism is the posit -X. Neither -X or X alone can qualify as a religion. Such may be a premise or a conclusion, but never a set of beliefs. Thus, the definition the fellow put forward excludes atheism.