I heard Jesus got kicked out of church.

[A Vestigial Mote]

Because at the second coming, comes the final judgment. Everyone who has died will be physically resurrected and summoned before the throne of God for the final judgment. When that happens, we're all going to notice.

Not buying it, but thanks for the clarification.

Just to check though - if Jesus did actually show up on Earth first and told everyone he was Jesus (let's say he was actually being responsible, and decided to come down and give everyone a warning so they could try and clean up their acts as necessary - you know, something any halfway decent person would do for people they supposedly cared about), would you believe him? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that by all accounts, he just looked like another guy who thought he was Jesus. Maybe he was wearing some robes, and he had the beard, his skin tone happened to match whatever skin-tone you identify with Jesus as having, etc. So it looked like him, but all you really had was his word to go by - no miracles or anything like that. Would you believe him?

 

[Stevicus]

I just heard that Jesus just left Chicago, and he's bound for New Orleans.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Jesus doesn't get kicked out of church. Church gets kicked out of Jesus.

 

[JJ50]

I just heard that Jesus just left Chicago, and he's bound for New Orleans.

I might be imagining it, but I think I once heard that some American Christians claimed Jesus visited their country.

 

[Stevicus]

I might be imagining it, but I think I once heard that some American Christians claimed Jesus visited their country.

Actually, that was a reference to a song by ZZ Top.

 

[JJ50]

Actually, that was a reference to a song by ZZ Top.

No I don't think so, this was many years ago that I heard that claim, which of course was crazy.

 

[Maximilian]

That post of mine was in response to this:

And in particular, the bolded part. Perhaps the piece of the context that is missing is that I am, to be sure, a most incorrigible non-believer.

The RCC doctrine that God demoniacally tortures billions of immortal spirits for all eternity in a blazing sea of perpetual fire is a Satanic Antichrist mendacity that defames God. As a God of justice and love, he would never create such a vicious and barbaric realm much less prescribe infinite punishment for a finite crime no matter how wicked.

Notwithstanding, our Creator has every right to pass judgment on all those who practice what is evil and to reward the good with everlasting life.

Would you dispute his right to do so?

 

[JJ50]

The RCC doctrine that God demoniacally tortures billions of immortal spirits for all eternity in a blazing sea of perpetual fire is a Satanic Antichrist mendacity that defames God. As a God of justice and love, he would never create such a vicious and barbaric realm much less prescribe infinite punishment for a finite crime no matter how wicked.

And you know that for a fact do you?

 

[metis]

The RCC doctrine that God demoniacally tortures billions of immortal spirits for all eternity in a blazing sea of perpetual fire is a Satanic Antichrist mendacity that defames God. As a God of justice and love, he would never create such a vicious and barbaric realm much less prescribe infinite punishment for a finite crime no matter how wicked.

It is actually taken from what Jesus supposedly said as found in the NT, but then we as Catholics are not literalists, so there's more than enough wiggle-room available for doubt and disagreement.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The RCC doctrine that God demoniacally tortures billions of immortal spirits for all eternity in a blazing sea of perpetual fire is a Satanic Antichrist mendacity that defames God. As a God of justice and love, he would never create such a vicious and barbaric realm much less prescribe infinite punishment for a finite crime no matter how wicked.

Says you specifically, and others who believe like you. But there are a great many thousands of others who subscribe to your same "Bible" and who worship the same God who DO believe in these things. How do we reconcile this? Is there any GOOD way? I don't believe there is. Which is one of the many reasons why I am inclined to dismiss ALL of it.

Who has it right, and who can demonstrate the veracity of such claims? The answers are "I don't know who" and "No one can demonstrate such." That's a terribly sad state of affairs for a belief you so ardently hold, isn't it? I certainly think so.

 

[JJ50]

It would appear that believers create the Biblical god in the image that does the business for them, including the authors of the documents making up that book.

 

[Maximilian]

It is actually taken from what Jesus supposedly said as found in the NT, but then we as Catholics are not literalists, so there's more than enough wiggle-room available for doubt and disagreement.

It seems you are of the opinion that Jesus taught that God demoniacally tortures billions of immortal spirits for all eternity in a blazing sea of perpetual fire.

 

[Maximilian]

Says you specifically, and others who believe like you. But there are a great many thousands of others who subscribe to your same "Bible" and who worship the same God who DO believe in these things.

With the code of conduct he supplied his loyal ones, Christ drew a bright line and then announced that absolutely everyone on the other side is not a Christian.

So wholly devoted to this code would these be that all non-Christian world-views/conduct would be effortlessly recognized. (Malachi 3:18 cf. Titus 1:16)

These preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words.

Meaning that, just as we are able to distinguish genuine legal tender apart from Monopoly money, any sincere person can make a distinction between a Christian and an Anti-Christian (Satanist).

So start there. Find that body of worshipers who's global cdemonstratesonduct clearly they are in fact bona fide Christians and then go from there.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

So start there. Find that body of worshipers who's global cdemonstratesonduct clearly they are in fact bona fide Christians and then go from there.

And what I am saying is that there is no valid way to do this. The "word" is up for interpretation. You can say "no it isn't" all you want, but when one group of people calling themselves "Christian" says the words mean one thing, and your group calling themselves "Christian" says another - that proves, beyond any doubt, that the words are, indeed, up for interpretation.

And all you have advised me to do (like thousands upon thousands of others have done before) is go seek out the faction of Christianity that most closely interprets The Bible the way that I do.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Look at what we do with all the Jesuses who visits RF.

First question to Jesus.

"Did you take your meds"?

 

[Lee Hays]

Christians talk about how much they admire and adore Jesus.

Yet one fine and Misty morning, Jesus walked through the doors of a christian church.....


10 Reasons Jesus Would Get Kicked Out Of Church

Egad!!!!! Who let this guy in?

I also like to add that people would think he's pretending he knows much better than the Pastor .Err.. Dr.

Where is your theology degree Jesus?

Ironically Christians today have all but become the Sadducees and the Pharisees of the day when things are put into context.

I'm sure there's more things that Jesus would get kicked out of church for. Maybe even get excommunicated.

Anything else that could be added to get this Jesus fella kicked out of church?

I mean , come on Jesus will be too much trouble upstaging the clergy and all.

When you say “Christians today”
Who exactly do you mean?
Christians who claim to be Christians?
Christians who self proclaim they’ll never live up to being called a Christian?
Or a Christian who doesn’t go to church.

Honestly - I don’t think Jesus would go to church..
The church is - suppose to come to him (the Bride)...

 

[Maximilian]

And what I am saying is that there is no valid way to do this. The "word" is up for interpretation.

Let's put that to the test:

’[Jehovah] has hated a divorcing.’ —Malachi 2:16 (Bracket mine.)

"There are six things that Jehovah hates;
Yes, seven things that he detests:

Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart plotting wicked schemes, and feet that run quickly to evil,

A false witness who lies with every breath,
And anyone sowing contentions among brothers." —Proverbs 6:16-19

“Jehovah . . . hates anyone who loves violence.”—Psalm 11:5



What does Jehovah God hate?

 

[metis]

It seems you are of the opinion that Jesus taught that God demoniacally tortures billions of immortal spirits for all eternity in a blazing sea of perpetual fire.

Not at all, and you might read "My Faith Statement" at the bottom of my posts for clarification of the basic paradigm I work from.

 

[metis]

Christ drew a bright line and then announced that absolutely everyone on the other side is not a Christian.

And I do believe that "bright line" was well expressed by Jesus in his Sermon On the Mount, whereas he puts much more emphasis on living a moral and loving ("agape") life than he does on political correctness. John 3[16] very much echoes that, and the Parable of the Sheep & Goats in Matthew 25 warns about those who just talk-the-talk but don't walk-the-walk. .

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Let's put that to the test:

’[Jehovah] has hated a divorcing.’ —Malachi 2:16 (Bracket mine.)

"There are six things that Jehovah hates;
Yes, seven things that he detests:

Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart plotting wicked schemes, and feet that run quickly to evil,

A false witness who lies with every breath,
And anyone sowing contentions among brothers." —Proverbs 6:16-19

“Jehovah . . . hates anyone who loves violence.”—Psalm 11:5



What does Jehovah God hate?

I absolutely love your example, and it should display quite nicely how even you, yourself (the one doing all of this proclaiming that there is a "right" way to interpret these things) are engaged in entirely wrong ways of thinking.

Take "haughty eyes" as a first example. What are "haughty eyes?" In today's dictionary, "haughty" is defined as: disdainfully proud; snobbish; scornfully arrogant; supercilious. So, God doesn't like people whose eyes are "snobbish", right? Just their eyes? Or am I to interpret this not literally, but figuratively, to mean that God doesn't like people who look down on other people, or treat them without respect? Is that even right? "Haughty eyes" is a poetic way to state something - which is falling down immediately on the job of communicating succinct meaning and intent. This is why legal contracts would never, ever contain words like "haughty eyes."

Take "hands that shed innocent blood." So... he detests hands that shed blood of innocent people? What about hands that shed blood of guilty people? Are we to interpret that this is okay? It isn't mentioned. He specifically states that He detests "hands that shed innocent blood," and since "guilty blood" isn't mentioned, my first guess would be that He, at the very least, doesn't detest that act. Maybe it is okay to shed guilty blood in some cases? Or maybe God even enjoys "hands that shed guilty blood?" In any case, it doesn't seem to be as bad as "hands that shed innocent blood," so maybe a gray area?

On to "a heart plotting wicked schemes." Does He only detest the heart? Or is that too literal? Does He actually detest the owner of the heart? And I suppose we should ask the question - can a heart (a bodily organ) even plot wicked schemes? I don't know... seems a little hard to imagine, doesn't it? But let's just say God meant He detests people who plot wicked schemes. There's no mention of those who carry out wicked schemes. What about anyone who only carries out the scheme for the naughty person who plotted it? If they didn't do any plotting of their own toward the ends of the scheme, are they okay? Not detested? Or still detested? The text doesn't really say, but maybe that's covered in the next one - "feet that run quickly to evil."

As for that one - does He only detest feet that run "quickly" to evil, or does he also detest those feet that run slowly to evil? How about those that run hesitantly to evil? What about those that are already there, just standing in evil? Does he hate those feet too? Wait... you mean they're not literally "feet" we're talking about here? We're back to people? So He detests people who have feet that run quickly to evil? And by "running to evil" are we talking about them running up to other people who are evil? What if they run to someone who is evil just to stop them from doing something evil... is that still detested? I mean... they were "running quickly to evil" in a way. Maybe it means that they have to be running quickly to do the evil themselves? Ah... maybe He means that He detests people who are prone to acting upon evil impulses without hesitation? But again... what if they do hesitate? Is all forgiven?

How about "A false witness who lies with every breath?" Does it literally need to be every breath before God detests them? So, anyone who lies every other breath is not detested? What about every 4th breath? Every tenth? What if it is only one per million breaths? And seriously now - how do I know it doesn't mean a "False witness" who is lying down while they breathe? I mean, it already mentions "false witness" and throwing "lying" in there just seems redundant. So maybe it really is that God detests people who falsely witness while lying down... so if you just stand up, you're not detested anymore!

Poetic wording necessarily leads to interpretation and "what it means to you" processing of information. It just does. And The Bible is poetically worded. Thank you for providing the perfect examples that work 100% in favor of my side of the argument. This same sort of thing can be done (and has been done, even by all sorts of Christians) with most of the writing in The Bible.