I don't support feminist movements

[oldbadger]

I've seen abusers file civil lawsuits against their former victims for speaking out.
This seems to happen most frequently when the abuser can afford a lengthy trial and their victim cannot.

Ah! Now, where do you live?
Some countries run 'trial by money' and I don't know that world.
I live in England where anybody can bring a civil case for a few hundred pounds and present it themselves.

There are sex crimes which don't make it to court for lack of evidence, I know that, but our police and prosecutors are getting some real heat to tighten up their proficiency, and more protection is being offered to victims now.

We are working on it, is all I can say.

 

[Tambourine]

We are working on it, is all I can say.

Would you prefer it if victims of abuse or harassment stayed silent while you continue to sort out your issues?

 

[oldbadger]

Can you start over and tell me exactly what your problem is in one clear summary? Someone's missing something or we all are.

You had trouble with my simple posts?

Nevermind btw. I'm not going to be around to answer. Someone else might be interested though.

OK
I'll talk to the wall.

 

[oldbadger]

Would you prefer it if victims of abuse or harassment stayed silent while you continue to sort out your issues?

No
Crimes should always be reported.

 

[Tambourine]

No
Crimes should always be reported.

If you can't prove it to the standards of a court of law, then it's not a crime, is it?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

If you can't prove it to the standards of a court of law, then it's not a crime, is it?

Well, there are two things going on here. I'm not taking sides, I'm just saying:

-The burden of proof for a criminal offense seems to be pretty high

-In cases where you don't think you can quite meet that burden, like if you just feel emotionally manipulated by a person, you could just try to sue. Sueing isn't foolproof. If they don't have a dime to their name, you won't get much. Or if they're rich, they can do tactics like try to drag on the case so long that you'll run out of money before they do. So I guess one has to pick their battles, and not get themselves into such positions as much as possible, which I'm just saying - I'm not blaming the victim.

 

[oldbadger]

If you can't prove it to the standards of a court of law, then it's not a crime, is it?

True.

What can be done?

On the side, I used to counsel victims of violence and sex abuse so I remember a few situations. I also came across sex crimes from time to time. I always used to take every opportunity to ensure that crimes did get proved.

Can I ask....
What experience have you had with all this?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Regarding criminal offenses, one can prove their case, and it appears still not get justice. One example of how is by statute of limitations laws.

 

[oldbadger]

Well, there are two things going on here. I'm not taking sides, I'm just saying:

-The burden of proof for a criminal offense seems to be pretty high

-In cases where you don't think you can quite meet that burden, like if you just feel emotionally manipulated by a person, you could just try to sue. Sueing isn't foolproof. If they don't have a dime to their name, you won't get much. Or if they're rich, they can do tactics like try to drag on the case so long that you'll run out of money before they do. So I guess one has to pick their battles, and not get themselves into such positions as much as possible, which I'm just saying - I'm not blaming the victim.

All true.
I wasn't taking sides either, just remembering various kinds of situations from the past.
This issue is so bad that many folks just cannot discuss it.

A really good criminal investigator has to be totally cool over each case or they lose efficiency, which let's the victims down sometimes. Heat is no good.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

All true.
I wasn't taking sides either, just remembering various kinds of situations from the past.
This issue is so bad that many folks just cannot discuss it.

A really good criminal investigator has to be totally cool over each case or they lose efficiency, which let's the victims down sometimes. Heat is no good.

In my surrounding area, people have been known to be let off with warnings on first offenses sometimes too. Even one of our own local politicians, got in hot water for corruption, but got off because he hadn't ever been warned on anything. So he resigned, and got a warning... rather than spending years behind bars.

 

[oldbadger]

Regarding criminal offenses, one can prove their case, and it appears still not get justice. One example of how is by statute of limitations laws.

Ah!
We are better off than you in that way.
We do not have a statute of limitations for serious offences. Famous People have been convicted and locked up for ages old offences. I can think of a few names.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Ah!
We are better off than you in that way.
We do not have a statute of limitations for serious offences. Famous People have been convicted and locked up for ages old offences. I can think of a few names.

It gets even more diverse over here. The statute of limitations is I think sometimes up to the individual states.

 

[oldbadger]

In my surrounding area, people have been known to be let off with warnings on first offenses sometimes too. Even one of our own local politicians, got in hot water for corruption, but got off because he hadn't ever been warned on anything. So he resigned, and got a warning... rather than spending years behind bars.

Sexual offences don't get warnings here. They are convicted and entered on to a register which is open to a level of public scrutiny.

In 1980 a neighbour down our road was convicted of a serious sexual offence. Because he was in his sixties and looked after his ancient mother the judge decided upon hearing him to his home, the register, probation for years etc. Today that same convict would be locked up for 15+ years.
So we are getting much tougher

 

[oldbadger]

It gets even more diverse over here. The statute of limitations is I think sometimes up to the individual states.

Sure.
Our statute of limitations only covers civil matters, not criminal ones.
We think that there should be no time limit to prosecute any crime, but certainly sex offences will be pursued forever.

 

[oldbadger]

It gets even more diverse over here. The statute of limitations is I think sometimes up to the individual states.

Trouble is, a lot of people scream and shout and get hot about all this, but if you ask those same people to offer answers...... they are gone.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'd like to summarize my position in this topic right now, since I was one of the sides being responded to by others:

After reading the responses, I have softened my view on #MeToo and see practical uses for it. I probably won't be an actual part of the group to a serious extent though - I see it too much in terms of if I speak out against someone bad and they find out, it creates legal ammunition against me if say, they try to cause trouble later and I do have to report it to the authorities.

As for feminist movements, I think I should support them, but it's such a complex subject, the words I'd rather give people about it is: "I don't expect to support them any less than I have, in this thread. But for a complex subject, I'll leave you with a 'we'll see' approach as to more strongly supporting them."

This thread has been helpful for me so far, though.

 

[oldbadger]

.
There is a harsh backlash against many women and men when they come forward with their experiences, and preventing that backlash is what MeToo is about.
.

Ah, yes... and male victims....
A young man sat in his car by the beach when another man frantically banged on his window, screaming that his girlfriend was in the water and drowning. The young man rushed down to the waterside with the frantic man who then clubbed him unconscious and raped him. There was no girlfriend of course.
I remember how the victim was treated by the police, by work colleagues, neighbours etc. He became the object of jokes.
........suicide.

There sure are victims

 

[oldbadger]

I'd like to summarize my position in this topic right now, since I was one of the sides being responded to by others:

After reading the responses, I have softened my view on #MeToo and see practical uses for it. I probably won't be an actual part of the group to a serious extent though - I see it too much in terms of if I speak out against someone bad and they find out, it creates legal ammunition against me if say, they try to cause trouble later and I do have to report it to the authorities.

As for feminist movements, I think I should support them, but it's such a complex subject, the words I'd rather give people about it is: "I don't expect to support them any less than I have, in this thread. But for a complex subject, I'll leave you with a 'we'll see' approach as to more strongly supporting them."

This thread has been helpful for me so far, though.

Very good.
You benefitted from it then.

Where I live in Kent, England the women here seem to be very confident in general, and strong in themselves about gender equality. They'll tend to confront any gender bigotry full on, and possibly for that reason they are not loud about feminism, they are just strong and confident mostly.
Of course there will be exceptions.

 

[JustGeorge]

Ah, yes... and male victims....
A young man sat in his car by the beach when another man frantically banged on his window, screaming that his girlfriend was in the water and drowning. The young man rushed down to the waterside with the frantic man who then clubbed him unconscious and raped him. There was no girlfriend of course.
I remember how the victim was treated by the police, by work colleagues, neighbours etc. He became the object of jokes.
........suicide.

There sure are victims

Its true. Men are poked at for even mentioning such incidents...

As a teenager, my husband and a friend had a man try to trick them, drug them, and you know what else... He succeeded in drugging the friend, but my husband said he had a bad feeling about his drink and didn't drink it. He soon found his friend passed out. He was able to get away, with his friend over his shoulder and with threats with a knife and threats of police(the man was expecting them to both be incapacitated). He never did turn it in, though, due to stigma and the fact he felt his word would not be honored; a young homeless youth against a very rich man. How many other young boys out there did that man attack?

 

[oldbadger]

Its true. Men are poked at for even mentioning such incidents...

As a teenager, my husband and a friend had a man try to trick them, drug them, and you know what else... He succeeded in drugging the friend, but my husband said he had a bad feeling about his drink and didn't drink it. He soon found his friend passed out. He was able to get away, with his friend over his shoulder and with threats with a knife and threats of police(the man was expecting them to both be incapacitated). He never did turn it in, though, due to stigma and the fact he felt his word would not be honored; a young homeless youth against a very rich man. How many other young boys out there did that man attack?

Exactly!

Does anyone here know if the MeToo movement supports male victims?