Piculet
Active Member
Do explain.You have shown a vast ignorance of Islam in more than one thread.
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Do explain.You have shown a vast ignorance of Islam in more than one thread.
Maybe a bit of criticism of Islam is a good thing? Sometimes change is not corruption, but cleansing.
I think that it is perfectly reasonable to support the right of people to follow a certain religion while also criticizing that religion.
Surely the Quran also... Nope.
Surah Al-Baqarah [2:191]
"And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers."
That's kind of besides the topic. My point is that those who are ignorant about Islam and try to defend it, frequently do more harm than those who criticise it.
Totally agree. Criticism is a science. In both religions Christianity and Islam, criticism has been part of the system since the beginning. Of course there were times when the church leaders or/and that particular ulama had restricted criticism for some kind of personal and institutional gain, but over all, criticism was always there.
The problem remains in the understanding of criticism. Since the topic is Islam, lets take it for example. Long long ago, somewhere around a 100 years after the prophet Muhammed died people developed all kinds of sciences in ahadith analysis. Usul ul fikh, ilm al hadith are all very serious criticisms. Every single methodology is a science of criticism.
But this word "Criticism" is generally understood by many as saying bad things about something. Even in this forum I have noticed that a thread called criticism of the Quran is understood as finding faults with the Quran. Its a serious misconception. In biblical studies we have many many forms of criticism. Redaction criticism, form criticism, narrative criticism, etc etc etc. They are all taught in university as part of curriculum, not some random "slam the religion" kind of bogus criticism.
Thats the problem.
Well, if you look at criticism even more broadly is a form of doubt, testing, checking and what not. And sometimes you come up with a negative result. But that is not a problem, if you accept a negative as valid result. In some sense we end here:
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
It comes in many variants and can be found in science and philosophy.
#71Can you give an exact and precise example how this is possible please? I would like to understand better.
I'm not arguing based on this forum.
If x quotes an authentic hadith saying something which, to a non-Muslim, might strike as absurd and first thing y does, is deny this is a real hadith or that Muslims follow such a teaching.
If x mocks the way Muslim women are to dress and y rushes to explain that the dress is indeed outdated, but is no longer necessary because the rules regarding dress were only relevant at the time of the revelation.
If x mocks the permission for men to have four wives, y says, it is only for when some woman needs a husband and there is no one available anymore, but fails to provide any evidence for it.
You don't have to know the odds – just ask. Islam is the truth. But I'm sure there's a lot of things I'm wrong about. Does it bother you if people are certain about something?
Do you dislike it when they know something ...
...and you can't make up your own mind?
I must say, I can't relate with any such thing.
NopeGood. Was he any good?
This is a good example of the mind-twisting contortions
Oh, goody. Let's show that one religion's atrocities are not so bad because another religion espouses the same atrocities.Also if you want to play this dirty gutter game, here you go mate. I am doing this to show you that any tom dick or harry can play the same childish cutting and pasting game you can play.
Except that that was not the point of that post...Oh, goody. Let's show that one religion's atrocities are not so bad because another religion espouses the same atrocities.
Oh, goody. Let's show that one religion's atrocities are not so bad because another religion espouses the same atrocities.
I find such ego-driven certainty to be a sign of ignorance, especially when the certainty stems from superstitious beliefs.
Bother me? Only in the sense that willful ignorance bothers me. As the old saying goes, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Why are you critiquing the "cultural religion" brand of hypocrite so common in Western democracies? From them Islam recruits all of its members in western countries.Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.
What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam. They're only accepting toward what they think Islam could be if it was as corrupt as Christianity.
I say blatant islamophobes...
I have no problem that you are none religious and don't like religion, but why come up with those evil sayings when you have nothing to prove it?
Atheists really like ****ting on religion, but as soon a spiritual person like my self stand up and disagree with their view, then all hell brake free, why are you allowed to make those comments toward religion, but I can not make critique of atheism without getting my head ripped off??
Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
...
Definitions
Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.
Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.
Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited.
Thank youI can answer that as a former atheist. It is a double standard. You can see it here:
What is Atheism? | American Atheists
All fair and well. Now here is from the same site on another page:
Our Vision | American Atheists
That is the double standard of at least some Western atheists. If you look closer, then they can't do what they claim that they can do: ...the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method,...
In effect they are Believers in Rationalism, Naive Empiricism and Objectivism(non-Ayn Rand). They are as irrational as most people are, when it comes to understanding their own individual subjectivity and that includes me. I am no different, I just honest about it. That is it.
Regards and love
Mikkel
Sounds like they want to have it both ways. It's not a belief system but then it is when it's convenient to them.I can answer that as a former atheist. It is a double standard. You can see it here:
What is Atheism? | American Atheists
All fair and well. Now here is from the same site on another page:
Our Vision | American Atheists
That is the double standard of at least some Western atheists. If you look closer, then they can't do what they claim that they can do: ...the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method,...
In effect they are Believers in Rationalism, Naive Empiricism and Objectivism(non-Ayn Rand). They are as irrational as most people are, when it comes to understanding their own individual subjectivity and that includes me. I am no different, I just honest about it. That is it.
Regards and love
Mikkel
And here's an atheist apologist for Islam. Did you bother to read their post? He said, essentially that no matter how much you appease Islam, the very fact that you are not Muslim makes them regard you as hypocrites. It will NEVER be enough.But I will not be a hypocrite, I will be committed to my faith.