Human Animals?

[Little Dragon]

Do you believe "civilized" to be better than "uncivilized"?

You'e going to hate me.

What do you mean better? I don't have an ideal for mankind, in mind. It is what it is.

Do I think all things being equal we're better off now?

I honestly don't know. That is a very difficult question, having not experienced life as a hunter gatherer tribesman.
There's a certain appeal, I must say, to old fashioned living. The innocence and the deep connection with nature. Those we've lost.

Unfortunately.

 

[Kfox]

You'e going to hate me.

No I don't hate you, believe it or not I love this conversation; I find it challenging.

What do you mean better?

Do you recognize a difference between good/bad, better/worse, helpful/hurtful? Or are all actions equal to you?

Do I think all things being equal we're better off now?

No; I said nothing about all things being equal; I asked do believe civilized is better than uncivilized.

I honestly don't know. That is a very difficult question, having not experienced life as a hunter gatherer tribesman.
There's a certain appeal, I must say, to old fashioned living. The innocence and the deep connection with nature. Those we've lost.

Unfortunately.

Modern technology has nothing to do with being civilized. I think it would be a big mistake to assume a hunter/gatherer tribesman is uncivilized

 

[Little Dragon]

Modern technology has nothing to do with being civilized. I think it would be a big mistake to assume a hunter/gatherer tribesman is uncivilized

It has a lot to do with it. A hunter gatherer relies on a set of technologies handed down from parent to child, all of the technologies are based on survival. From fire starting to snaring and trapping. They revolve around the dependency on the natural world, to provide everything needed to survive.

Modern technology is very different. Modern technology separates civilized people from the natural order. So their entire world view, is very different. From that of a hunter gatherer.

Uncivilized doesn't mean bestial or violent etc.. It means to not live in an urban environment. To not live under a political hierarchy. To not depend on modern technology. In my view.

 

[Little Dragon]

Do you recognize a difference between good/bad, better/worse, helpful/hurtful? Or are all actions equal to you?

Depends on context, depends on subjectivity.

In my opinion, good and bad are points of view.

The consequences of any actions, cannot be fully anticipated or predicted from the chains of cause and effect they will create, whatever the intentions behind them.

 

[Little Dragon]

No; I said nothing about all things being equal; I asked do believe civilized is better than uncivilized.

Not necessarily no. I believe both have advantages and disadvantages and I do not have the ability to foresee what the ultimate consequence of civilization for humanity will be, it could be, extinction.

 

[Little Dragon]

No I don't hate you, believe it or not I love this conversation; I find it challenging.

Cool. It's good to communicate ideas and perceptions.

 

[Kfox]

It has a lot to do with it. A hunter gatherer relies on a set of technologies handed down from parent to child, all of the technologies are based on survival. From fire starting to snaring and trapping. They revolve around the dependency on the natural world, to provide everything needed to survive.

Modern technology is very different. Modern technology separates civilized people from the natural order. So their entire world view, is very different. From that of a hunter gatherer.

Uncivilized doesn't mean bestial or violent etc.. It means to not live in an urban environment. To not live under a political hierarchy. To not depend on modern technology. In my view.

My question about uncivilized, I was talking about bad/inhumane behavior.

Definition of UNCIVILIZED

not civilized: such as; not polite, reasonable, or respectable : objectionable according to social norms —often used humorously; showing gross disregard for the law or for the fair and humane treatment of people or animals… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Depends on context, depends on subjectivity.

In my opinion, good and bad are points of view.

Do you see good and bad as morally equal? Or do you favor one over the other.

 

[Little Dragon]

My question about uncivilized, I was talking about bad/inhumane behavior.

Definition of UNCIVILIZED

not civilized: such as; not polite, reasonable, or respectable : objectionable according to social norms —often used humorously; showing gross disregard for the law or for the fair and humane treatment of people or animals… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Do you see good and bad as morally equal? Or do you favor one over the other.

You accidentally omitted the other definitions following the entry under Merriam Webster for uncivilized.

(1) old-fashioned + often offensive : not having the kinds of social systems, technologies, etc. that are seen in most modern societies

(2) : remote from settled areas :

I was referring to it's more anthropological definitions listed above, given the context of discussion.

 

[Little Dragon]

Do you see good and bad as morally equal? Or do you favor one over the other.

What is good, what is bad? What is your benchmark for good? or bad? How do you determine an action or a thought to be good or bad.

I see morality as an abstract construct. A fabrication. A collective expression of human instinct history belief and societal pressures.
A shifting mutable and varied set of principles taboos and contracts.

I can only navigate through social interaction with my own internal compass, employing conscience, empathy, knowledge and intuition.

 

[Kfox]

You accidentally omitted the other definitions following the entry under Merriam Webster for uncivilized.

(1) old-fashioned + often offensive : not having the kinds of social systems, technologies, etc. that are seen in most modern societies

(2) : remote from settled areas :

I was referring to it's more anthropological definitions listed above, given the context of discussion.

So you see uncivilized as out dated? I guess we were pretty much speaking a different language hence our confusion.

What is good, what is bad? What is your benchmark for good? or bad? How do you determine an action or a thought to be good or bad.

I see good as that which is helpful, bad as that which is harmful. IOW Do you perceive what you consider helpful to be better than that which is harmful? Or do you perceive them equally.

 

[Little Dragon]

I see good as that which is helpful, bad as that which is harmful. IOW Do you perceive what you consider helpful to be better than that which is harmful? Or do you perceive them equally.

Your benchmark is a good one, and similar to mine.

I boil everything down to choice.

Actions that remove choices from other people, if not justifiable, are "wrong" or "bad". Actions that give more choices to other people, are ostensibly "right' or "good".

For example, in my view, applying the above, murder is very bad or very wrong, because by killing someone, you remove all possible choices from them. Theft is also wrong in my view, since by stealing from someone, you are again removing choice, taking away their financial choices. Limiting what they can purchase, pay off and save or invest, and so on.

That's my "academic" position. My theory of right and wrong.

 

[Kfox]

Your benchmark is a good one, and similar to mine.

I boil everything down to choice.

Actions that remove choices from other people, if not justifiable, are "wrong" or "bad". Actions that give more choices to other people, are ostensibly "right' or "good".

For example, in my view, applying the above, murder is very bad or very wrong, because by killing someone, you remove all possible choices from them. Theft is also wrong in my view, since by stealing from someone, you are again removing choice, taking away their financial choices. Limiting what they can purchase, pay off and save or invest, and so on.

That's my "academic" position. My theory of right and wrong.

Is it fair to assume you find good more favorable than bad?

PS as far choice being your benchmark, are there ever situations when taking away choice can be justified? Like for punishment; sending someone to jail or prison, taking away a child's privileges for bad behavior?

 

[Little Dragon]

PS as far choice being your benchmark, are there ever situations when taking away choice can be justified? Like for punishment; sending someone to jail or prison, taking away a child's privileges for bad behavior?

If there is justification. An action to constrain or sanction or otherwise correct undesirable behaviour, such as illegally limiting the choices of others. Certainly in the moral criminal context.